To survive as a function, it’s clear that TA teams need to become strategic partners to their businesses rather than service providers. But what does that really mean in practice? It’s easy to talk about being strategic, but the execution is where most teams struggle.
The challenge isn’t just about new processes or technologies. It’s about fundamentally different ways of communicating with hiring managers and stakeholders. It’s about asking better questions, listening more effectively, and knowing when to challenge decisions without creating unnecessary friction. So, how do you build a TA Team of Talent Partners?
My guest this week is Jeff Soto, Vice President Talent Acquisition (Americas) at Sony Music Entertainment. In our conversation, Jeff reveals the specific techniques his teams use to partner with the business and why communication skills matter more than ever in our age of technology-driven disruption.
In the interview, we discuss:
• The essential skills required in TA right now.
• Talent Advisory versus Talent Partner
• Adopting a coaching mindset
• Active listening, clarity, and summarizing
• Persuading with data, analytics, and insights
• Challenging hiring managers in non-adversarial ways
• What will the TA team of the future look like?
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Transcript
00:00
Matt Alder
Some talent acquisition teams are purely transactional, while others have become trusted talent advisors. But the most effective teams are going even further by influencing outcomes through coaching and genuine partnership. Keep listening to find out how they do it. Support for this podcast comes from Greenhouse. Greenhouse is the only hiring software you’ll ever need. With built in analytics that deliver on demand insights. Greenhouse helps hiring teams align faster with stakeholders and make more confident hiring decisions. Greenhouse analytics empowers recruiting teams to explore data freely. No add on tools are needed. Query filter and build reports, drill into historical trends and create custom analyses to answer critical questions on pipeline, health, performance and sourcing efficiency. Greenhouse has helped over 7,500 customers across diverse industry verticals from early stage to enterprise become great at hiring, including companies like Airbnb, HubSpot, Lyft, SeatGeek, HelloFresh and DoorDash.
01:19
Matt Alder
If you’re ready to navigate your hiring data your way, you can visit greenhouse.com to learn more.
01:30
Speaker 2
There’s been more of scientific discovery, more of technical advancement and material progress in your lifetime and mine than in all the ages of history.
01:45
Matt Alder
Hi there. Welcome to episode 737 of Recruiting Future with me, Matt Alder. In order to survive as a function, it’s clear that TA teams need to become strategic partners to their businesses, rather than just service providers. But what does that really mean in practice? It’s easy to talk about being strategic, but the execution of it is where most teams struggle. The challenge isn’t just about new processes or technologies. It’s about fundamentally different ways of communicating with hiring managers and stakeholders. It’s about asking better questions, listening more effectively, and knowing when to challenge decisions without creating unnecessary friction. So how do you build a TA team of talent partners? My guest this week is Jeff Soto, head of Talent Acquisition for the Americas at Sony Music Entertainment.
02:44
Matt Alder
In our conversation, Jeff reveals the specific techniques his teams use to partner with the business and why communication skills matter more than ever in our age of technology driven disruption.
02:58
Matt Alder
Hi Geoff, and welcome to the podcast.
03:00
Jeff Soto
Hi Matt, thanks for having me.
03:01
Matt Alder
An absolute pleasure to have you on the show. Please could you introduce yourself and tell everyone what you do?
03:08
Jeff Soto
Sure. I’m Jeff Soto. I lead the talent acquisition team for the Americas for Sony Music Entertainment.
03:17
Matt Alder
We’re going to sort of dive into a lot of things around talent acquisition and where it’s going, and particularly where teams are going. So just kind of start us off with what do you think it is? In this ever changing, disruptive world that we’re now living in, what do you.
03:32
Matt Alder
Think it is that are the most.
03:34
Matt Alder
Essential skills that TA teams need to be effective at the moment.
03:38
Jeff Soto
For me, looking at what’s going on right now, and I’ll take a step back, is we’re in such a period of crisis, change and chaos and it’s happening at breakneck speed from an external sector. There’s various conversion factors, whether that’s social, political, cultural, financial. That’s. It’s happening as such unprecedented speeding we’ve ever seen. And those external factors eventually impact internal in terms of organizations. And you think about TA and you zoom in how people seek out through opportunities, what they value, how they sort of experience the world of work. It’s going through really a metamorphosis. So it’s important to set the stage there. So I think what that means is essential. Human qualities like empathy, adaptability, agility are more important than ever and only I.
04:49
Matt Alder
Think will continue obviously with this talent acquisition is evolving. There’s, there’s lots of talk about TA teams becoming genuine or true talent advisors to the point where it’s almost a kind of a bit of a buzz phrase. I mean, what does that mean to you and is that the right direction to be going in?
05:11
Jeff Soto
I think it’s part of the conversation. I don’t think it’s the end result. So let me give you the context there. I think if you step back and look at ta, when I started many moons ago, oftentimes TA was in this order taking role. Right. So essentially, do you want fries with that? And then I, I think it evolved to more of advisory. Here’s what we recommend, here’s what you should be doing. That’s great. Yet I think to make a significant impact, at least for the teams that I’ve led, is to move towards more of a TA partner focus and that’s influencing outcomes. And for me that’s done through adopting a coaching like mindset where in an advisory role you’re making the recommendations, you’re telling people what to do.
06:03
Jeff Soto
When you adopt a coaching like mindset, you’re coming from a place of curiosity, you’re asking insightful questions, you may also be challenging as well. And you’re really practicing active listening throughout. So it’s a much deeper conversation to get to the outcome that you’re looking for. So for me, advisor, yes. That’s part of the continuum, if you will. Yet at the moment, I really encourage the teams that I lead to move more to a TA partner influencing outcomes.
06:35
Matt Alder
Yeah. How does that kind of transformation take place? I mean how do you build a coaching mindset within your team?
06:43
Jeff Soto
I think it’s adopting basic principles of coaching and I’m in no way suggesting that someone goes out and gets certified with a coaching degree. You certainly can. I see a lot of people doing that yet adopting basic principles such as active listening, which is hearing what someone is saying, you’re attuned to their thoughts. It’s a very non competitive way. And there’s various degrees of active listening from 1 to 3, which of course we can go over the aspect of gaining clarity. So if you’re confused about what someone said or the rationale behind it, being able to come from a place of curiosity, ask those questions. And number three, summarizing. It’s just playing back what you’re hearing, not introducing new thoughts as essentially playing back what you’re hearing from your stakeholder, from your hiring leader, from your HR bp.
07:40
Jeff Soto
So those simple steps in terms of active listening gain clarity through curiosity and summarizing can make a world of difference. Obviously there’s some mechanics to that. Yes, at a fundamental level, that’s what I encourage my teams to practice, break.
08:00
Matt Alder
Down those mechanics for us a little bit more just in terms of doing this really well.
08:05
Jeff Soto
So when it comes to active listening, there’s different tiers to that. At a very basic level, you’re listening to someone, you may not be fully grasping what they’re saying. You’re tuned in at a very transactional level. At a, at a number two level, you’re grasping what you’re saying, yet you may have some distractions where at a number three level, that’s where you’re able to turn that conversation into an active, non competitive, two way interaction. So you’re in tune to what the speaker is saying. You’re centered yourself, you’re not focusing on what you’re seeing next, so you’re really withholding judgment. And that’s an extremely important key of it, where you’re not coming in with assumptions already made about the person. If you have that, you’re putting that to the side.
09:01
Jeff Soto
And at that point you’re open to new ideas, fresh perspectives and sort of the art of the possible. So in summary, that’s active listening. I think it’s extremely important. I think oftentimes as ta, we call our recruiters TA partners. We recently made that shift. Oftentimes, I’ve heard some recruiters operate in a very transactional script. Right. They’re going through the motions and a lot of TA teams do that. I think to sort of centralize how the team is showing up or for consistency. Yet the problem with that is if your recruiters are using this very scripted way, they’re not able to adapt to the conversation, they’re not able to explore different concepts, they’re not able to I think, move in a coherent and cohesive manner throughout the conversation. So I think it’s important to have a framework maybe of the questions that you’re asking.
10:01
Jeff Soto
Yet with active listening, it does encourage that recruiter to say, hey, I’m going to be tuned into you, I’m going to stay centered and I’m going to be open to new ideas, fresh perspectives versus coming in maybe with assumptions and offering a very scripted transactional experience.
10:23
Matt Alder
Yeah, absolutely. And what kind of reaction do hiring managers have? Because in the same way lots of recruiters are used to operating in a transactional way, lots of hiring managers are used to dealing with recruiters in a transactional way.
10:36
Jeff Soto
Yeah, I think that would more show up in the gaining clarity. So active listening really is for the listener. Right. They’re tuned in. The next phase of that is getting clarity. So if a recruiter is confused about what someone said or the logic behind it, I oftentimes have seen recruiters not ask.
10:59
Matt Alder
Right.
10:59
Jeff Soto
If the hiring leader comes out with a very technical term or they use an acronym, some recruiters may shy away from asking versus saying, hey, that’s really interesting. Can you help me understand when you say this, what does that look like? Or when you say you want someone with excellent communication skills, Tell me more about that. Or if someone says I need an introvert versus an extrovert like hey, let’s explore that more. So I think that’s going to be key to often challenging the hiring leader in a non adversarial way. And usually it flows to a natural conversation. And I’ll give you sort of something in sharp contrast if the recruiter comes in and said, well, why are you asking for that? Why do we need that? The why could conjure up a threat level in the hiring manager. It’s a bit defensive.
11:58
Jeff Soto
It could be seen as adversarial in a subtle way where if you come from a place of care, curiosity and say, help me understand or let’s explore that more, you reduce that threat level from the hiring leader and they’re more open to exploring. So it’s a, I would say it flows into a natural conversation. So the next basic principle is summarizing. So if you think about you’re coming in as an active listener, you’re withholding judgment, assumptions, you’re tuned in to the speaker, you’re asking insightful questions, you’re coming from a place of curiosity, and you’re really focusing on those door knob questions. Right. What does that look like? You tell me more about versus why the next piece is summarizing. And that simply involves receiving what the speaker said in your own words, while summarizing means condensing the main point.
12:47
Jeff Soto
So it’s really focusing on those headline pieces. So within that, you want to stick to the salient points, you want to recognize the speaker’s perspective and refrain from introducing new points. So say you’re in a kickoff and the hiring leader has said something. It’s like, hey, I just want to pause here. Let me make sure I get that correctly. This is what I heard from you. Does that sound about right? So what that does is you’re acknowledging what the speaker is telling you, and you’re also gaining clarity for yourself that you understood it correctly. At that point, it gives you opportunity to maybe lean in with a different perspective and maybe introduce data or insights sites. Or if you fully agree to it, then you’re aligned. Yet that simply dissolves alignment.
13:38
Jeff Soto
I can’t tell you how many times TA partner recruiters have come to me and said, hey, I didn’t quite understand that, or I didn’t get summary. So it’s a simple way of playing back what you heard, acknowledging their perspective, and then gives you opportunity to challenge and introduce new perspective at that point versus early on in the conversation, which can create friction or resistance from the speaker and then kind of.
14:05
Matt Alder
The persuasion part of that. So you kind of set that sort of the atmosphere of curiosity and exploration. How do you then persuade them away from, you know, certain ways of thinking or making certain decisions that wouldn’t be appropriate?
14:18
Jeff Soto
Yeah, I think that’s where you can bring in data analytics insight. Say, hey, when we’ve done this in the organization, here’s what we found to happen, right. When you want to review sort of every resume in the ats, often we find a hiring leader is really short on time. It’s. You’re. You’re spending a lot of unnecessary time where you can get back into adding value for your business. That’s just a very transactional example. Yet it’s, I think, being able to offer up data analytics or experiences where we said, hey, when we’ve used, when we’ve gone this direction, we’ve ended up with this outcome. When we’ve gone in that direction, Oftentimes it hasn’t been very favorable. So essentially, we’re not, again, we’re not telling them what to do. It’s.
15:10
Jeff Soto
We’re giving them solid examples, whether that’s through data or whether that’s through experiences that we’ve had. In terms of outcome, the whole of.
15:20
Matt Alder
The data piece around TA is kind of constantly evolving and is much more sophisticated than it was even a few years ago. How is that playing out? What do you find the most useful part of that? What kind of analytics and data are kind of the most meaningful?
15:36
Jeff Soto
I think it depends on the situation. If you’re going into, as you recruit in a new market, obviously if it’s a situation, you don’t think you have the talent in there that you have the data to back it up. In any case, though, I think it should be in the form of storytelling. And what I mean by that is you’re just not sort of rattling off data. It needs to come from a place where it’s coherent, it makes sense that it’s cohesive and it’s woven into a story. And ultimately it has maybe like an aha moment or some type of focus back to the outcome that you want to get to, whether it’s in the direction that you think is the right way to go or if you’re trying to steer someone away from it.
16:27
Matt Alder
And what part does technology play in this, in terms of process or interfacing with hiring managers?
16:35
Jeff Soto
Yeah, I think it depends again, what you’re solving for. There’s obviously tools out on the market. LinkedIn has their own data collection, and I’ve used that at past companies. Internally, we pull data together in terms of a TA dashboard around our own data and analytics. So I think it depends truly on what you’re solving for. There’s different external platforms you can go out and different internal. My experience has been it’s not so much the lack of data, it’s how it’s being used. Are you just bringing it to the table and saying, hey, I found this, and here’s what you should do versus making it a conversation. You may not lead with it yet. It may end up being woven through the conversation at some point.
17:20
Jeff Soto
And that’s again, where that coaching, like, mindset coming in, where you’re actively listening, like, what’s the problem that I’m hearing? Or what are we solving for? And that’s done through that, gaining clarity in terms of curiosity, and I suppose.
17:32
Matt Alder
Pulling all of that together from a TA team perspective. So that coaching, that partnership role, how do you Think that comes together in terms of sort of building the TA team of the future. Where do you think we’re kind of going with all of this? What could a TA team look like in 18 months, two years time?
17:51
Jeff Soto
For me, I think I should set the foundation of my experience and expertise. So I’ve been mostly in Fortune 500 organizations where there’s a high degree of complexity with the roles, there’s a level of specialization or specialization, nuance, etc. Versus high volume. So I haven’t been in the high volume business for years. I think that’s important because oftentimes I hear when recruiter leaders talk, sometimes they speak from a high volume perspective or more experienced hire. And I do think you have strategies for those different outcomes. I think it’s important I mentioned that for my team at the current moment and where I’m going is more of a modular approach.
18:37
Jeff Soto
So less of we have TA partners dedicated to specific functions or departments versus what’s the skill set of the talent that we’re looking for, what level of stakeholder engagement is needed and what’s the level of difficulty? So let me give you context. Oftentimes I’ve seen some outcomes not come out so great because you may have sort of one standard level of a recruiter. And for me at least I think there’s a difference as to when you’re recruiting sort of early career entry level versus trying to influence an EVP on an SVP higher tactically, the recruiting style looks different. The level of engagement is going to be more intense and more difficult as you work with higher levels and overall the way in which you interface with candidates is going to shift.
19:38
Jeff Soto
So I think for me it’s about how do we develop a modular team that broadly speaking can lean into various roles at different times as skill sets change. Do we have different levels of recruiters that are meeting the moment in terms of what business outcomes we’re looking for and how do we keep those skill sets sharp with the team?
20:01
Matt Alder
Comes back to those core communication skills, doesn’t it?
20:04
Jeff Soto
Yeah, for me that’s what it always comes back to, I think is how someone shows up in a kickoff, how someone is influencing difficult conversations, how someone is keeping composed and centered when the waters are very treacherous. So again, I think it goes back to those essential human qualities and at the end of the day you can have a very bright and bold TA strategy. You could have a new glossy ATS system. Yet if your recruiters are not being developed from a communication perspective, that is going to significantly I think, erode the outcome that you’re looking to get humans.
20:55
Matt Alder
Still front and center in the process.
20:57
Jeff Soto
Yes. With the, you know, obviously valuing data and analytics on the way and being able to adapt and shift when necessary.
21:04
Matt Alder
Jeff, thank you very much for talking to me.
21:06
Jeff Soto
Yeah, absolutely.
21:07
Matt Alder
My thanks to Jeff. You can follow this podcast on Apple Podcasts on Spotify or wherever you listen to your podcasts. You can also search through all the past episodes@recruitingfuture.com where you can also subscribe to our weekly newsletter, Recruiting Future Feast, and get the inside track on everything that’s coming up on the show. Thanks very much for listening. I’ll be back next time and I hope you’ll join me.
