Despite all the recent advances in recruitment technology focused on improving recruitment efficiency, speed of hiring remains a significant issue for the vast majority of organisations. In fact there is actually a growing body of evidence that suggests speed of hiring is slowing down.
So what can employers do to improve this situation? My guest this week is author and consultant Scott Wintrip. Scott has developed a methodology to eliminate hiring delays which he sets out in his recently published book, “High Velocity Hiring”
In the interview we discuss:
• Why time to hire is such a problem
• The concept of Candidate Gravity
• How employers can enrich the flow of talent into their organizations
• Why common interview techniques don’t work and what should be used to replace them
• Maintaining an inventory of talent for on demand hiring
Scott also shares his thoughts on recruitment technology and tells us the single most important question employers should be asking themselves before they make technology investments
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Transcript:
Matt Alder [00:00:00]:
Support for this podcast comes from Lever. Providing a modern take on the applicant tracking system. Lever combines ATS and CRM functionality into a single, powerful platform to help you source, nurture, and manage your candidates all in one place. What’s more, Lever’s deceptively simple interface means that hiring managers and applicants love it too. To find out how Lever can help you both accelerate and humanize hiring, visit www.lever.co recruit. That’s www.lever.co recruit. And lever is spelt L E V E R. Lever where ATS meets.
Matt Alder [00:01:08]:
Hi everyone, this is Matt Alder. Welcome to episode 98 of the Recruiting Future podcast. Despite all the recent advances in recruitment technology that have been designed to increase efficiency for organizations, speed of hir remains a significant issue. In fact, there’s a growing body of evidence that suggests that speed of hiring is actually slowing down. So what can employers do to improve this situation? My guest this week is author and consultant Scott Wintrip. Scott has recently had a book published called High Velocity Hiring, which sets out his tried and tested methodology to eliminate hiring delays. Hi, Scott, and welcome to the podcast.
Scott Wintrip [00:01:57]:
Thank you so much, Matt. I’m so happy to be with you today.
Matt Alder [00:02:00]:
It’s a pleasure to have you on the show. Could you just introduce yourself to everyone and tell us a little bit about you and about your background?
Scott Wintrip [00:02:09]:
Certainly. So I’m Scott Wintrip. I’m from Tampa Bay, Florida, and I run a consultancy that is global. My focus is all about eliminating hiring delays forever. And I came to that work kind of by accident. I was a music major in college, but found myself into the recruitment industry when I walked into an agency looking for work. And it opened my eyes to this possibility of doing this noble work of putting people in jobs and helping companies procure talent. And so that’s been a 30 year career. I noticed a long time ago that hiring took way too long back 30 years ago, and it’s actually gotten slower as of late. And it prompted me to write a book to share the process that has allowed me that I’ve put forward forth at companies to fill their jobs the instant they become open. And so that’s where the book comes from. High Velocity Hiring is my success in filling jobs in an instant.
Matt Alder [00:03:01]:
Now, before we sort of dive in and talk about the book and the sort of process that you, that you put forward, can you just give us a sense of, you know, why, a bit more about why you wrote it and the sort of specific problems that you’re trying to, you’re trying to Address.
Scott Wintrip [00:03:18]:
So sure. Let me take you back to when I first became a recruiter. It was back long enough ago that it was in the time here in the States when we referred to ourselves proudly as headhunters. I thought it was incredibly noble work. I still do. And what I noticed was every time somebody had a job opening, they told me that they needed that person today or yesterday. That’s not changed for me at the time. With very limited experience, I realized when they call, when they need somebody yesterday or today, I better have people lined up. So that’s how I recruited from the start. I found out that much of the world doesn’t do it that way and it hasn’t gotten a lot better time to fill hit another historical peak this year, over 30 working days. And you would think, Matt, with all the technology, all the tools, how LinkedIn and connected we are, that hiring would have gotten faster. And it hasn’t. And a lot of people are blaming it on the skill shortage, but that’s actually not the problem. It’s a process problem. And so my consultancy is about that. Over the past 18 years, I’ve laid out a process that has made these hir delays go away. Because I look at it this way, an empty seat is kind of look like an open wound in an organization. It is a very, very painful distraction that keeps work from getting done. And usually it’s not just one open seat, it’s multiple. So it’s like multiple open wounds. And I don’t mean to be gross, but I think we’ve all had that experience. You have a scab on your arm or a sore on your leg, it’s very distracting. It’s the same thing in an organization. Organizations to be successful, they don’t need those distractions. They need great people to get work done.
Matt Alder [00:04:55]:
So yeah, I mean, I think as you say, it’s, it’s, it’s a common problem and it’s a problem sort of throughout the world that people, that people face every day. Talk us through high velocity hiring. What, you know, what, what’s, what’s your process? What are the elements of it? How, you know, how do you solve these kind of problems?
Scott Wintrip [00:05:14]:
So in the book I lay out a six step process and I’m going to encapsulate that really in three phases. To answer your question, the first phase, the first two steps are all about harnessing and enriching the flow of talent. And so when we enrich the flow of talent, we’re tapping into more talent streams because most organizations are not. And when we tap into more of the talent streams looking for the right people. Then we can move on to that second phase where we harness people, harness their energy, harness their people power. And what I found in that phase of hiring, Matt, is that the common ways of interviewing are not very accurate. If you think about it, two people sit down in an interview and they talk about doing work and they hope and pray. That’s an indicator, a good indicator that the job’s a fit. And it shouldn’t be any surprise that a lot of the time, because people are putting their best selves forward, it doesn’t fit. And so I’ve pioneered some ways, some hands on interviewing techniques in that second phase where people can quickly identify if the candidate’s right and the candidate can quickly identify if the job is right, then that last phase, the last phase is maintain. We maintain a talent inventory that’s either for one job or multiple jobs. But the goal is to be able to fill a job the instant it becomes open. I’ll leave you with this piece. In regards to the process, this is no different than what Amazon is doing. Other online delivery mechanisms like Uber are doing is they know there’s going to be demand, so they plan for that demand. It’s applying the, the principles of the on demand economy to hiring to make sure that you have what you need when you need it, when it comes to talent.
Matt Alder [00:06:55]:
Okay, that sounds very interesting and I think it’s probably worth sort of digging in a little bit more to those phases just to find out, you know, perhaps some specifics or some specific methods or tools that you talk about in the book. So phase one, sort of tapping into, tapping into streams of talent. Obviously the world’s a very noisy place these days. Finding people isn’t easy. What can people do to sort of improve that aspect of their process?
Scott Wintrip [00:07:22]:
So there’s a concept that I developed called candidate gravity that really helps organization understand their pull on the market. Every organization has a pull and it’s almost like a gravitational field. That’s why I call it candidate gravity. And that pull was either weak, inconsistent or strong. Unfortunately, only about 10% or so of companies have strong candidate gravity. Now that pull on the market is generated by streams of talent, not by individual resources. That’s the way we’ve tended to look at recruitment. We’ve tend to look at it as to what job board should I use, which ATS or talent management system should I pick to keep track of talent, how should I ask for referrals? And that’s all well and good, but that doesn’t look at it from a talent stream perspective. There are eight distinct streams of talent. And when you look at it from that perspective, you can actually measure and assess your areas of weakness. Each of those eight streams taps into unique pools of people. So, for example, referrals is one of those streams. There are people that you can harness through referrals that you can’t get anywhere else. The same thing is true in what I call talent manufacturing, one of the most underutilized streams. This is where you upskill and reskill talent to make up for the talent shortage. Every single one of these streams should be bringing in a consistent flow of talent, some of whom become good potential hires, some of which actually join your team. And when you look at it in that perspective, you can assess which of those you’re underutilizing. You’ll find the pools of talent you’ve not been tapping into. The beauty of this, Matt, is this works for organizations of all sizes. It works for the recruitment firms that serve these organizations. Every organization has a pull on the market. And if you can assess where your pool is weak, shore that up, you can not only bring in a strong flow, but you can bring in a surplus of talent. What I find is that people with strong candidate gravity have more talent than they can actually use.
Matt Alder [00:09:27]:
Very interesting. Yeah. And I think that absolutely makes perfect sense. So phase two. I mean, talk us through some of the sort of specifics of that.
Scott Wintrip [00:09:38]:
Sure. Well, so let me make this a dialogue with you, man. Let’s pretend for a moment that you’re interviewing with me for a job. Would you agree with me that you’re going to put your best self forward and you’re not going to offer anything up that could potentially undermine your chances to get the job?
Matt Alder [00:09:59]:
Yep, I would absolutely agree with that.
Scott Wintrip [00:10:02]:
I’m not trying to suggest that you’re going to be deceptive in any way, but just like in dating, because I think dating and hiring are a lot alike. It’s only natural that both parties put their best selves forward. I can say to you, if I’m the interviewer, I’m going to tell you the best parts of the job. Yes, I may try to scare you off, as some interviewers do, a little reality check to tell you about some of the hard parts, the parts that are not pleasant. But overall, I’m trying to sell you. And that’s what both parties are doing. I call it the tell, sell and swell. Each party tells the other party what they think they want to hear. They sell each other on the best parts of themselves, and the interviewer sells the best parts of the job. And of course, both parties are trying to swell each other’s egos. It’s only natural we try to make other people feel good. So this creates a very inaccurate, incomplete conversation. So it’s promises. Promises that it’s a good job, promises that I can do the job. I’d rather see proof. So that’s why I believe, and I dedicated an entire chapter to experiential interviewing. I want to see, hear and experience if that candidate is a fit. I want the candidate to see, hear and experience that job and make sure that it’s what it’s right for them. So I have people do sample work, and I outline this in detail in the chapter. I tell you how to set up sample work exercises where you can actually confine the interviewing process down to one interview where you have the candidate do sample work. And I’ll give you an example. Let’s say, Matt, that in that interview that you and I were doing, you’re interviewing for a leadership job. I’ll give you an opportunity to lead. Maybe a big part of the job is strategy. I could have you run a mock strategy session for 90 minutes to two hours with the people you’ll be working with. I get to watch you in action. You get to experience your colleagues. There’s nothing better than seeing. It’s been said, seeing is believing. If I can see you in action, there’s no tell, sell and swell. I see proof of fit versus you telling me that you’re a fit.
Matt Alder [00:12:06]:
Very interesting. You know, I think that’s definitely an approach that I can see. Approach that I can see working. So what comes next after that? What sort of. Tell us a bit more about the sort of third. The third phase of your process.
Scott Wintrip [00:12:21]:
So if we have enriched the flow of talent, we’ve harnessed the right people because we’re conducting more accurate interviews, then that last phase is maintaining a pool of talent. Now, of course, we may have to backfill some jobs. Maybe we came into this process the first time. We’re implementing high velocity hiring with some open jobs. So our first responsibility is to fill the open jobs. But once that’s done, this is now why we have to keep recruiting. I have a mantra that I believe in in this third phase. It’s always interviewing, occasionally hiring. And you probably would agree with this. Matt, you’ve dealt with a lot of hiring managers. Would you agree with me that most leaders engage in the old way of hiring? They wait until a job opens and then they keep that job open until the right person shows up. That’s when they start the hiring process. Would you agree with that?
Matt Alder [00:13:15]:
Yep. Yep. Definitely. In some cases.
Scott Wintrip [00:13:18]:
So in some cases, there are exceptions to this. And this is the exception we’re talking about today is, I believe, in the new way of hiring as you cultivate talent and you wait for the jobs to show up. So that’s what we’re doing in the third phase after we filled our open jobs, we’re constantly cultivating talent. I call that a talent inventory. It’s not a set of shelves we put people on. That’s kidnapping, and that’s illegal everywhere in the world. It’s a virtual set of shelves. It’s an inventory of people, just a handful for each important core role. People who have an interest in coming to work for my organization, people who I vetted, who vetted me, who I keep in my pipeline. And the concept of pipeline isn’t new. It’s just done in a more structured way. It’s done ahead of time. The goal of it is that from this talent inventory, I can fill a job the instant it becomes open. In some cases, Matt, it’s as simple as I just need two people. Because for a role, if I’ve got one core role in my department and I’m recruiting ahead and the job opens, if I offer it to that first person and they say, no, I’ve got a second person, and they say yes. What you’ll note in this is hiring managers play a vital role in this. This isn’t just a recruitment or HR function. This is a collaboration. Yes, the recruitment function, if there is one in an organization, is drawing in the talent. But the hiring managers are part of the process by recruiting and interviewing ahead. That’s why that mantra, always interviewing, occasionally hiring.
Matt Alder [00:14:48]:
So this process obviously encapsulates the work that you do within your organization. How have you seen this working in practice? What kind of results have your clients got by implementing this process?
Scott Wintrip [00:15:06]:
I think one of my favorite examples. And I’ll draw. I’ll give you two quick examples. One, a global hotel chain that is a household name that most people know. What I love about this organization was they realized that they were relying too much on their recruitment or HR function to fill jobs. That may seem like a contradiction. That’s what recruitment and HR are for. But this was a dozen people for an organization filled with thousands of people. And so they were at a distinct disadvantage when they changed who was responsible for what. Using this process, they can now fill almost all of their roles in an instant, from housekeeping to food and beverage jobs in the hotels themselves, to jobs within corporate. How did they do it? Well, they enriched their flow of talent. And managers started playing a vital role in that. They actually started being part of the recruitment mechanism by asking for referrals and attending networking events. And there are metrics by which they’re measured. These managers recruit ahead and interview ahead. So they’re always interviewing, occasionally hiring. They’re also measured both from the hotels to the corporate office on how many interviews they’re conducting and is their pipeline full. And then that takes us to the third phase. They are measured and they receive bonuses based upon whether or not they’re maintaining talent inventories. And because of this, when jobs open almost all of the time, and it’s a rare exception, they can fill their jobs in an instant. So that’s example one. The second example is how this process improves diversity. And you know, I think my favorite example here is a manufacturing environment I worked with where it was a very biased environment. They actually had a caste like system. They openly believed that certain ethnicities worked better in certain jobs. And I typically choose not to work these assignments because I believe in diversity. But I took this one on because the leadership convinced me that these were good people. They were just making bad choices. They weren’t trying to be biased or prejudice. They simply believed in something that wasn’t true. And so one of the keys after we did the enriching of the process with a more diverse flow of talent is these hands on interviews change the perspective of managers. Rather than a knee jerk reaction that somebody is a fit because they’re a certain ethnicity or they’re not a fit, they started looking at people doing the work. They saw people from different backgrounds, different ethnicities, and they saw them doing high quality work. And it’s hard to judge somebody’s race or color or sexual orientation. It’s hard to judge that or harder to judge that. When you see somebody doing as good or better work than your preconceived notion of who’s a fit. And lo and behold, what happened in this, because they saw quality work, they started to change their perspective as to who was a fit. This organization, this manufacturing plant, you look at the departments today, they have incredible diversity among all departments. It started within one department, but it spread to the rest. They realized that their preconceived bias was completely wrong. And I think that’s the beauty I love about this overall process is when you see people in action in a hands on interview it’s so much more accurate and it removes the bias and helps you make much better choices.
Matt Alder [00:18:23]:
So, final question. On this podcast, we talk a lot about recruiting technology. What’s your view on it? Do you think that technology is making this process easier? Do you think technology is hindering recruiters? What role does technology play?
Scott Wintrip [00:18:44]:
I know you spend a lot of time on technology, Matt. I was hoping you would go there. And what a fitting last question. I devoted an entire chapter of the book to lean recruiting. To me, that’s what technology is about. Technology has to eliminate the waste, the wasted time, effort and resources. What I find is technology is not the issue. There’s a lot of good technology out there. It’s how people are using it, misusing it, or underusing it, or sometimes overusing it. So I lay out a process in that chapter about being lean compliant, that you need to be lean compliant, your technology needs to be lean compliant. So what does that mean? Well, it’s about avoiding the extremes. I’ve noticed two extremes when it comes to technology, and I gave them names. One is automation anorexia. It’s the underuse of technology organizations. There’s a law firm I talk about in the book where they have almost no technology. I mean, hiring technology is a fax machine. In their organization, they use paper files and they’re underusing. They’re almost afraid of technology. So when it comes to searching past candidates, they have to go through paper files and they rarely ever find anybody. Then there’s the opposite end of the spectrum of technology. I call that technological co dependence, where an organization allows their technology to dictate their process. Everything centers around the technology. In the book I talk about a German biotech firm where they had the latest, greatest of everything. The problem with it is a lot of the technology didn’t talk to one another. It actually made the process longer, not shorter. The key with technology is to use just enough of the right technology that pairs with your process. So it starts with process. Technology can never solve process problems. It can never take the place of a great hiring process. So what is enough technology? Well, for most organizations, it’s at least an applicant tracking system or talent management system. Most likely at least one job board. And then you scale from there. The larger the organization, typically the more technology you’ll need. I’ll leave you with this. The key behind it and the question I ask people all the time is how is this technology making things better and faster? Often that’s where the process breaks down. That’s where things break down. They look at it and they go, it’s not making things better and faster. And that’s because they’re using it incorrectly or they’re using the wrong technology.
Matt Alder [00:21:11]:
Where can people find you online and how can they get a hold of the book?
Scott Wintrip [00:21:16]:
So you can find me online and also the book@highvelocityhiring.com that takes you to the book page of my website. On there there’s a trailer about the book, links to your favorite booksellers, plus some added resources as well.
Matt Alder [00:21:30]:
Scott, thank you very much for talking to me.
Scott Wintrip [00:21:32]:
Matt, it’s been a pleasure. Thanks for having me on the podcast today.
Matt Alder [00:21:36]:
My thanks to Scott wintrip. You can subscribe to this podcast on itunes, on Stitcher, or download the show app on your smartphone. Just search for recruiting Future in your app store. You can find all the past episodes@www.rfpodcast.com on that site. You can also subscribe to the mailing list and find out more about working with me. Thanks very much for listening. I’ll be back next week and I hope you’ll join me.
