I firmly believe that AI is the most significant technological transformation of our lifetime. What will separate talent acquisition professionals who’ll thrive in this new world from those who’ll get left behind? The answer isn’t about the technology itself, but our mindset towards it.
Viewing AI as an opportunity rather than a threat might be your most important career decision this decade, determining whether you’ll lead or follow as this revolution unfolds.
So, how do we transform our mindset from panic and denial to opportunity and strategy in a way that positions us to thrive alongside AI?
My guest this week is Ronsley Vaz, computer scientist, entrepreneur and author of the brilliant book “Amplify AI.” Ronsley’s background as a software engineer and subsequent career in business and podcasting means that he brings a uniquely valuable perspective to this conversation,
In our discussion, we talk about the psychological barriers that can prevent us from thinking about AI strategically. We explore how TA professionals can shift their mindset from fear to opportunity and build on their existing expertise to develop practical approaches to AI adoption that emphasize courage and strategic thinking.
In the interview, we discuss:
• Why AI is the biggest and most significant technology shift in our lifetimes
• Moving from panic and denial toward opportunity and strategy
• How AI can augment and amplify your expertise
• Hype versus reality, and is the pace of innovation sustainable?
• Assistant versus Agent
• The biggest mistake people make using LLMs
• Courage, Collaboration, and Connections
• How to understand and keep up to date with the AI revolution
• What does the future hold?
Follow this podcast on Apple Podcasts.
Follow this podcast on Spotify.
00:00
Matt Alder
Is your mindset about AI determining your future in talent acquisition? The psychological barriers holding you back could be your biggest professional liability. What separates those who’ll lead from those who follow in the AI revolution isn’t technical knowledge. It’s your mindset towards this transformation. The way we respond to AI will determine whether we thrive or merely survive as it reshapes our industry. Do you have the right mindset? Keep listening to find out more.
00:36
Matt Alder
Support for this podcast comes from smart recruiters. Are you looking to supercharge your hiring? Meet Winston Smart Recruiters, AI Powered Companion. I’ve had a demo of Winston. The capabilities are extremely powerful and it’s been crafted to elevate hiring to a whole new level. This AI sidekick goes beyond the usual assistant handling all the time consuming admin work so you can focus on connecting with top talent and making better hiring decisions. From screening candidates to scheduling interviews, Winston manages it all with AI precision, keeping the hiring process fast, smart and effective. Head over to smartrecruiters.com and see how Winston can deliver superhuman results.
01:41
Matt Alder
Hi there. Welcome to episode 695 of Recruiting Future with me, Matt Alder. I strongly believe that AI is the most significant technological transformation of our lifetimes. So what will separate the talent acquisition professionals who thrive in this new world from those who’ll get left behind? The answer isn’t about the technology itself, but our mindset towards it. Viewing AI as an opportunity rather than a threat might be your most important career decision this decade. Determining whether you’ll lead or follow as the revolution unfolds. So how do we transform our mindsets from panic and denial to opportunity and strategy in a way that positions us to thrive alongside AI? My guest this week is Ronsley Vaz, author of the brilliant book Amplify AI.
02:39
Matt Alder
Ronsley’s background as a software engineer and subsequent career in business and podcasting means that he brings a uniquely valuable perspective to this conversation. In our discussion, we talk about the psychological barriers that can prevent us from thinking about AI strategically. We explore how TA professionals can shift their mindset from fear to opportunity and build on their existing expertise to develop practical approaches to AI adoption.
03:07
Matt Alder
Hi Ronsley, and welcome to the podcast.
03:10
Ronsley Vaz
Hey man, how’s it going? How’s it going, Matt?
03:12
Matt Alder
Really, really good. And it is an absolute pleasure to have you on the show. Please, for the benefit of everyone, could you introduce yourself and tell us what you do?
03:23
Ronsley Vaz
It’s so much easier when someone else does it because you don’t actually know what to put in there. And a lot of the times they feel, oh, should I mention that, should I not? But the best way to explain what I do or what I’ve been doing is the first part of my career was talking to computers. I’m a computer scientist, software engineer, can program in 21 languages. My first job out of university was to program a tractor to wake up in the morning and plow the field using GPS and park itself. Give you a rough. And this was way back in the day. It feels like such a long time ago. And then the next part of my career was talking to humans, as you mentioned. Podcasting and 13 years in the field, I suppose.
04:04
Ronsley Vaz
Started the first podcasting conference in Australia, signed the first deal with Amazon Audible in Australia, you know, and easily pro companies would have done, helped at least a thousand 100 pod businesses and brands start and grow podcast, you know, over the last 13, 14th year now. So I’ve been a, a proponent of amplification for a while and it’s really interesting because I find the overlap and the overlap is I love amplifying people’s genius. So, you know, whether it was podcasting or AI now which, you know, the two parts of my career have come and joined and, and had a baby almost with the artificial intelligence. So I feel like they’re both amplifiers in a huge way, especially off people’s genius.
04:57
Ronsley Vaz
If they’ve done something and they’re the ones that feel like the best kept secrets in the industry, you know, then it feels like these are two elements that will really help them.
05:08
Matt Alder
And, and that’s why I wanted you to introduce yourself basically because I think that, you know, that unique background you have of like content creation, marketing and being a software, being an actual software engineer, it just, I just think is just, it’s why it’s amazing to talk to you about AI. So you mentioned, you know, you started off programming tractors to plough fields and things like that. So you’ve obviously been, you know, looking at this space for a long time. Are you surprised by the developments of the last two or three years?
05:43
Ronsley Vaz
Yeah, I think anyone in any capacity would be surprised at the speed at which it’s happened. So to give you context, it took me four years to get a Bachelor of Engineering, okay. Computer science and Engineering. Then it took me another three years to get a Master of Software Engineering, another two years to get an mba. This is while I was working the masters were while I was working. But to give you context of when I went to university, this was just a theory. The blockchain was just a theory. You know, we had an idea of what could happen in a decentralized system, but we didn’t have fast enough computers, we didn’t have, you know, that much data that we could store. Internet was not even fast enough.
06:29
Ronsley Vaz
So there’s all these limitations that didn’t allow or even allow us to conceptualize this far ahead. However, if you know the curve of adoption, not only adoption, but the curve of how much computing power you can fit into a small inch is a exponential curve. So this massive improvements that have happened over the last few years, I mean when the first supercomputer got built, it almost was like someone ran the first four minute mile. It just started to, you know, people started to break those barriers which were thought of as it was impossible almost just because the hardware could not support theory. So yes, of course, 100%, it would be stupid not to, to, to say that anyone that would, knew exactly that this was where we’re headed. We knew that in theory, but this quickly, I don’t think so.
07:30
Matt Alder
And do you think that this kind of incredible sort of pace of change, this vertical curve we’re going up with, is that sustainable? Are we likely to see the same kind of speed of development over the next five years?
07:42
Ronsley Vaz
I think it is sustainable. I think the only thing that doesn’t allow it to be sustainable is humans need for not wanting to change. It’s probably the only thing that’s interesting. Yeah, that will come in the way. But in terms of what is possible, if you look at industrial revolution and how much we do with machines already, but we don’t even remember, we just think it’s normal. It’s not normal to control the temperature of a room. It’s not. You know, it is. We, we just take a lot of these things for granted. Yes, it is sustainable because it’s been gradually happening. It’s just that we don’t notice that it’s happening.
08:18
Matt Alder
Yeah, that’s a kind of a stunning point actually, just in terms of how quickly we take things for, for granted. I want to dive into the human part of this in a second because it’s sort of really important for our, for our industry and the sort of the conversations that we’re having in the technology that we, that we’re seeing develop. Before I do though, I just wanted to get your view on. There is so much hype about gen AI now and agentic AI and agents and all this kind of stuff. Where’s the line between hype and reality? Are things being overhyped? Are people sort of talking about things that are going to be possible in a year’s time as if they’re possible now? What’s the. Where’s the, where’s the line of reality currently?
09:01
Ronsley Vaz
Well, that’s a great question because it’s an annoying goddamn line, especially for me, hearing some people say really dumb stuff publicly. But it’s the bro code of marketing, you know, to fake it till you make it. It’s so I don’t know whether that part has changed. I think there’s always going to be a bunch of people that will take that and use all these fancy words like there are people. I actually watched a really good friend of mine and very well known entreprene about a post about we just built three agents in the last half an hour. No you didn’t. You build an assistant. If that is a big difference between an assistant and an agent.
09:45
Ronsley Vaz
And so maybe to clarify for people listening, an assistant is someone that you hand over a task to and you say and guide and hold hands with and you get your, your solution. An agent is here’s my task, get it done. And it’ll find the best way to do it and do it with a checklist and create assistance to help the agent achieve. So it’s agentic behavior, it’s hands off. It’s more, I suppose, what people think it will get to. And it’s already here, by the way. But it’s not that easy to make, it’s not that easy to especially teach someone else, you know, so of course there’s a high, there’s a hype. Yes. And it’s usually the marketers that are making the hype and then it.
10:36
Ronsley Vaz
So I think the market is one side making the hype and then there’s the media that’s pulling everyone down and there’s somewhere in between. You know, the is, is the entrepreneur’s way to find their own space in this world. Because here’s what’s. This will easily be the biggest conversation of our lifetime. There’s not, there’s no debate on that. It’s going to change how we even educate our kids. Right. It’s changed everything. So I think conversations aside, I think we all got to take responsibility to learn this because just like the Web and the Internet, even that is a small spec as to what, you know, possibilities are with AI. And right now, the way people are using AI, it’s like, you know, you have a laptop, but you’re using it as a paperweight to put over your bills.
11:30
Ronsley Vaz
So, you know, people are still not using it to its full capacity. And, you know, it’s obviously being hyped a lot.
11:35
Matt Alder
The reason I ask you that is because, you know, certainly internal acquisition, we’ve got this huge amount of hype about what’s possible and what’s not possible and that sort of thing. And then on the flip side, a lot of people’s experience of gen AI is just seeing LinkedIn full of kind of identical posts, you know, and that to many people is, is generative AI people just using ChatGPT. And there’s a really kind of sort of false narrative that it’s not that sophisticated. It does this, it’s not very interesting. You can easily spot when someone’s using it, but you couldn’t be more wrong, could they?
12:10
Ronsley Vaz
Yeah, you know, if, if someone’s like, oh, I write all my content myself is like saying, I didn’t use a calculator to do the math on this, or I washed my clothes by hand, or I manually swept the floor or didn’t use the vacuum cleaner. It’s just such a handicap to not use AI. But the problem is that most people are not using it correctly, so they’re getting very generic results. And as a result, they kind of associate AI with that. I mean, same thing happened with Facebook, right? When first Facebook came out, everyone that had a Facebook account was a social media expert. And I don’t think even they knew what they were doing in a lot of respects, which is what’s happening right now. But, you know, I just wish the people listened to the right people.
12:59
Ronsley Vaz
But in general, if you think about how the world’s working, you know, the ones that are shouting the loudest are really the ones that are being heard. If you think about it, they might not have the expertise. Even you look from afar. I’m talking about not only world governments, I’m talking about in general. It’s a, it’s a very common theme in organizations. We tend to carry like, we tend to view an influencer’s view on a topic more highly than an expert’s view on that same topic. So I suppose we shouldn’t be surprised. And you know, it’s stupid to fight the current, I suppose, but, you know, mowing the Current and then swimming along in a way that gets you to where you want to go is probably the way to do it.
13:47
Ronsley Vaz
And I think to answer your question, most of us get caught in the current because we actually don’t know where we want to go.
13:56
Matt Alder
No, I think that’s the thing. And I think also people just don’t perhaps appreciate the sort of, the sheer breadth of tools that are available and exactly how to use them and you know, all those kind of things and some incredible are already possible with what we’ve, what we’ve kind of got access to. I want to shift to talk about this. Humans, machines, relationship, competition, whatever it is in recruiting. There is a kind of a real sort of debate at the moment about how much AI should or can do in the recruitment process. And I think that people are perhaps drawing the line in the wrong place. I think that there’s a feeling that humans can things better, that actually we really know computers can. Where does the ultimately, where does the line between humans and machines sit with this?
14:48
Matt Alder
What is it that humans can do that machines can’t replicate or certainly can’t replicate now or in the near future?
14:57
Ronsley Vaz
I don’t think there’s anything that humans can do that won’t be ultimately, I’ll tell you why, because I think if you understand how AI has come together, there’s a combination of neurology and psychology and physics and chemistry and math and computer science. There’s so many. There’s about eight or nine different fields that come together to create AI the field. And you know, computers are built on us. It has long term memory, it’s got short term memory just like us. It’s got compute just like us. It’s got neurons firing in certain ways just like us. So you know, it’s the only reason some of the things are not possible yet is because we’ve not found a way to articulate what that is. For example, emotional intelligence is probably a newish field.
15:46
Ronsley Vaz
And you know, our parents might not even know what being present might even mean as an example. So it’s only newly. This, these topics only been able to be expressed now but over time, you know, we know for a fact certain things we’re not good at memory, you know, we’re not good at memorization. So it would not be smart to go against a computer that is extremely good at memory. So there’s certain things right now you can only see that. And when you keep asking about the line, I Think we’re going to constantly redefine that line. I think that line is going to change. It’s going to be very drastic. There was a time when all of us didn’t like, you know, rebelled against emojis and selfies, but we use them now, you know, So I remember.
16:42
Matt Alder
Cameras on phones seem like the most ridiculous thing that anyone ever invented, right?
16:48
Ronsley Vaz
And, and now you see it’s a whole new version of a human that are being, I suppose, educated to operate in the world in different ways. And I’m talking about schools, I’m talking about through social media and different types of media and parents and, and how parenting is even done and how learning is even done. There’s so many, so much has changed, right? And it’ll continue to change. That line is super hard to draw right now for the future. But as we stand, do the things that AI can’t do right now, which is be courageous, be collaborative, be connection worthy. You know, those are things that are super hard to do right now. And with AI is what I mean. And what’s happening is people are just doing the same thing, right? You talk about LinkedIn earlier. They’re just same regurgitated stuff.
17:44
Ronsley Vaz
You know, it’s AI generated, you can see it. But if they just was courageous enough to make that phone call that they’ve been avoiding and that’s why they put out this article, would have been way better for them than actually using AI. So in a lot of instances, it’s just not wanting to do the courageous thing or not wanting to do a collaborative thing or not wanting to do the connection piece. And you’re so disconnected. Funny enough, being so connected as a human species, but totally disconnected as a human being is more and more prevalent. And you’d agree with me on that, I think.
18:22
Matt Alder
Yeah, no, I agree. I agree 100. And I think that, yeah, you know, going back to what you said about this is the biggest conversation we’ll ever have. I mean, you know, 1 million percent agree with you there. And I suppose to kind of.
18:37
Matt Alder
Help people with this.
18:38
Matt Alder
So how do we sort of move from panic and denial towards sort of opportunity and strategy?
18:46
Ronsley Vaz
I’m going to say to you that I’m very hopeful for the future because I don’t feel like being the opposite is useful to where we’re going. Okay, so there’s two ways to look at this now. You can either be so artificial intelligence is learning from us. You know, we know that we can either be the parent that says, do as I say, or we can be the parent that says, do as I do. So we, if we keep going down this path of someone has to lose for me to win, then we’re not headed down the right path in this AI race at all. But if we go down the path of this collaborative nature here, there’s enough for everyone. There’s abundance, there’s. Let’s all connect, let’s not divide over all these differences. Let’s, you know, do the courageous thing.
19:40
Ronsley Vaz
There’s a lot of hope for what we can do then becomes the augmentation of intelligence. The thing that we crave, which is autonomy and freedom to do what we want to do, when we want to do it, is totally possible because I do feel like AI can solve some of the world’s biggest problems. What it comes down to is whether the humans in power will allow that to happen. You know, so there’s so many elements here that are at play, and that’s why having an open source, anything in AI is the way forward. It can’t be closed, it can’t be. It can’t be policed, it can’t be, you know, rules can’t be put on it, because it needs to thrive, it needs to flourish, it needs to be. It needs to. It needs to grow.
20:32
Ronsley Vaz
And we need to find better ways to do what we’re doing.
20:38
Matt Alder
No, absolutely. I think that finding better ways to do what we’re doing is the. It’s kind of the real. Is the real sort of core of this, because I think people are kind of protecting ways of working and institutions and things like that don’t actually do the best job at what they could do. And I think recruiting is a classic example because, you know, you talk to any. Anyone who’s looking for a job out there, and they’ll tell you that it’s a terrible dehumanizing process and we’ve just got to do better than that. And I’m really optimistic that AI is what’s going to help us, is what’s going to help us do that. So let’s talk a little bit more tactically.
21:16
Matt Alder
What is it that people can be doing right now to kind of really get up to speed with what’s possible, to educate themselves? You kind of mentioned listening to the right people, how people be experimenting. What kind of mindset is there? What, what, what do we all need to be doing?
21:36
Ronsley Vaz
That’s a very big question. I think just learning, just taking responsibility of the Fact that, you know, this is a new skill that you might not have. And just because you get a response out of ChatGPT or any AI doesn’t mean it’s the right response. So there’s an element of knowing what you’re doing and how you’re asking. And so, you know, in business or in general, there’s this value alignment gap that we all have in the sense that it’s hard for us to express exactly what’s in our brain in words. So that’s why the delegation piece becomes hard, especially, you know, recruitment. Someone comes on for the first time. That’s why there’s an onboarding process, that’s why there’s some training involved to get them up to speed with the lingo and how things operate in the new business.
22:24
Ronsley Vaz
So I feel like there’s an element of having to learn these new skills and then one of the easiest skills to learn is logic, is how does a computer operate? What is required for the computer to do its best work? What is not common sense? What is common sense? What is explicitly required to be mentioned? What is not, how does the computer operate in terms of the process that you’re asking of it? So there’s all these different elements that I feel is being missed because people are selling prompt packs just to make a quick buck and the copy and paste prompts will work, but you just don’t know what’s happening. You just don’t know why it’s working. And sometimes they don’t even work. There’s probably a prompt pack that they’ve put through another AI and just sold it to you.
23:25
Ronsley Vaz
So, you know, being more responsible of how this works and where it works is probably the first thing. The second thing is not necessarily to look at the new AI tools or the new AI news that’s coming out all the time, but to build on whatever value piece you bring to the table. So if you’ve already spent, you know, I think most people, you talk about the panic earlier, Matt. The panic comes from, oh, I’ve spent 20 years of my life doing this. What if it goes away? Rather than, oh, I’ve spent 20 years of my life doing this, I know more about this. And if I augment that 20 years that I have of experience with this artificial silicon based intelligence, I could potentially be untouchable, you know, and I think it’s that there’s a way of looking at that.
24:22
Ronsley Vaz
So rather than look at it from a place of lack, you know, so if you think about driving or drivers. You know, we knew, we know that drivers are not going to be a thing going forward or it’s going to be much less. You know, drivers are going to. As a. We’ve known for 10 years at least, if not much longer. So. But talk about that. That first job that I had that was unmanned vehicles, that was in 2006. So, you know, that was even operational back then and you know, deployed back then. It just in. Not in public spaces. So drivers are going to be a thing that will be different going forward, but the ones that will probably do really well are the drivers that kind of go well, what part of my job is not replaceable? Could I.
25:18
Ronsley Vaz
Could I become a recruiter for drivers for their next job? That’s going to be a. That’s going to be a field. Like I’m just making stuff up right now.
25:28
Matt Alder
Of course, of course. It’s like looking at that kind of opportunity. And it’s kind of interesting because I was at a conference last week in the US called Transform and the Transform, I think it was originally called Transform hr. The reason I like it is it’s full of people having these conversations. So I was talking to someone who had been a recruiter for over 40 years and they were there to think about how they could take their knowledge and build AI tools that would.
25:58
Matt Alder
Would scale it.
25:59
Matt Alder
And it was exactly that kind of conversation is the kind of conversation we need to be having, not the it would ever catch on. I don’t want to use it. It’s. I’ll always be much better than machines. And it was just refreshing to have those kind of. It’s just brilliant to have those kind of conversations. I suppose maybe just give people a little bit of a kickstart because I think there are lots of people who are just kind of stuck with Chat GPT and that’s the whole world of AI for them. What are the. What are some of the sort of favorite tools that you use or what are things that people could, you know, play around with and get some value from really quickly?
26:33
Ronsley Vaz
Well, we. I just did a training for. For my group last week about how we used to have multiple Chat GPT accounts including. Including the Pro$200 ones. And we’ve gotten slowly. Just waned off Chat GPT and we’re all on the free version of ChatGPT right now. So, you know, it’s interesting how we’ve gone from ChatGPT plus and we have multiple plus accounts and then we got the pros account, we got a couple of pro accounts. And then when actually there are other AIs that are doing that can do us the job and we don’t need all these. These ChatGPT accounts. Yeah, because I think what, you know, there are different types of businesses. When you think about three main elements of a business is attract, convert and deliver.
27:22
Ronsley Vaz
The businesses that are really good attract, there’s business really good at convert and there’s businesses that are really good at deliver and they’ve learned the other bits, but some of them are really good. So I think OpenAI is really good attract and they’ve done a great job. I don’t think they’re profitable and there’s a huge rumor out about how. Whether they are actually profitable with how they’ve been operating so far. And it could very well be that they are not profitable. So neither here nor there. But I’m just trying to say that there’s so many other tools that you should look at. And not only look at the tools, but look at how you talk to the tools. Because if you know how to talk to the tools, then yourself can gauge whether that tool is good for you.
28:06
Ronsley Vaz
Like, I know that if I use a certain tool, I know, okay, well, I’m not getting the result I want because I know that my conversation two is correct. So I don’t have to like debate whether this tool is good or not. So I think that’s the first piece, understand how you can communicate. The next is there’s so many Anthropic by Claude by Anthropic is probably one of my favorites right now. Gemini by Google easily pushing some boundaries, especially with, I think their video is very good. And Notebook 11 with podcasting or so is extremely good. There’s sort of elements there that are really good that Google do that ChatGPT doesn’t or even Claude doesn’t. In terms of context size, the. The amount of data that Google is able to handle is way more than its nearest competitor by a long shot.
28:56
Ronsley Vaz
So in that respect, you know, Gemini is a. Is. Is a pro account worth having. So we’ve got Claude, we got Gemini, we use Perplexity. We think that is a really good one, especially with deep research. Grok is pretty good by Twitter because it’s uncensored. So for example, my dad recently went through angiogram and got angioplasty. And you know, were trying to decipher his reports. ChatGPT wouldn’t, but Grok did, which was useful, you know, at the time it was useful, because that’s exactly what happened. I did not have a Grok Pro account, and then I got. I actually bought it at the hospital, and it was very useful to, like, you know, look at the reports and click the picture and say, can you tell me what’s going on?
29:44
Ronsley Vaz
Rather than wait for someone to tell us and even give us some, you know, twisted version of what the truth really is. So that. That’s useful in terms of uncensorship, you know, and I think I. I actually don’t know where the line is with uncensorship. I don’t feel qualified enough to talk about that in terms of AI, but I do feel that data is, like, super important. So the amount of the data that the AI is trained on or the context that you give the AI is a huge piece of the results you’re going to get. So there’s different things, and I think what the key for everyone listening is, what is your use case? So right now I would ask you to first go and make a list of the 10 activities you do most often in the week.
30:37
Ronsley Vaz
Just make a list of what they are, and then find out what process you use to get there. And then see in that process if you can augment that with AI. And that will be way more productive for anyone listening than any tool I give you right now.
30:52
Matt Alder
Yeah, of course. Makes perfect sense. Final question. Tell us about your book.
30:59
Ronsley Vaz
Yeah, the book is the second of two. The first book is Amplify, which is how to use a podcast to grow a business. And the second book is Amplify AI. Funny enough, you know, the story of how the book is named is crazy because I didn’t think of this name. AI told me to name it this, and once it came up with the name, I was like, of course it makes so much sense. But, you know, it was right in front of me and I didn’t even. This book is. Is. Is all about augmentation of intelligence. It’s about the reduction of human cognitive load. So you see, you talk. You talk to people these days, and you hear about how they are anxious or overwhelmed or burnt out or there’s all these. Human cognitive load is at its peak. We.
31:44
Ronsley Vaz
We feel constantly that we’re missing something that when we’re supposed to be doing in general. So the book. The book would have taken five years to write, and it is just a combination of so much, including how a business can use AI to grow operations, revenue, brand, and audience. That’s the second, the third part of the book, the first part of the book is hard to see intelligence, and I’ve used indigenous wisdom algorithms that have existed in nature, like bird patterns and ecosystems, to inform how to create AIs going forward that are collaborative in nature. And the middle part of my book, Part two, is about an it’s about ethical use of AI and how what to think about when you’re using AI.
32:34
Ronsley Vaz
And I know most of us right now are talking about AI and are looking for use cases, but obviously there’s an ethical boundary that we’ve got to talk about. People’s data is at stake. People’s I suppose IP in a way is at stake. But you know, how much of that IP really belongs to us is a big case that I’d like to make at some point. So I feel like the book is basically a map for businesses on how to grow those four things revenue, operations, brand, and audience. And also a way to think about AI in a way that is useful for us going forward. Yeah, fantastic.
33:19
Matt Alder
Ronsley, thank you very much for talking to me.
33:22
Ronsley Vaz
It’s been a pleasure. Thanks, Matt.
33:24
Matt Alder
My thanks to Ronsley. You can follow this podcast on Apple Podcasts on Spotify, or via your podcasting app of choice. You can search all the past episodes at recruitingfuture.com on that site. You can also subscribe to our weekly newsletter, Recruiting Future Feast, and get the inside track on everything that’s coming up on the show. Thanks very much for listening. I’ll be back next time and I hope you’ll join me.
