There is currently daily speculation about what the future of work will now look like and how employees might be feeling about it. Rather than trading in speculation and assumptions, I wanted to bring you some proper data to help us find out what is actually happening.
With that in mind, my guest this week is Jon Wilson, CEO of Totaljobs. Every year Totaljobs work with their international partners in The Network in conjunction with Boston Consulting to produce the largest survey of employees and job seekers in the world. The latest research is built on data gathered from over 200,000 respondents across 190 countries and looks at the pandemic’s impact on employment preferences and global talent mobility trends.
In the interview, we discuss:
▪ The methodology behind the research
▪ Remote work and whether employees expect it to continue
▪ The advantages and implications of remote work across borders
▪ Employee experience, what is important to people now
▪ DE&I
▪ Sustainability and environmental issues
▪ Reskilling and career changes
▪ What happens next
Listen to this podcast in Apple Podcasts.
Transcript:
Matt Alder [00:00:00]:
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Matt Alder [00:01:12]:
Hi everyone, this is Matt Alder. Welcome to episode 355 of the Recruiting Future podcast. There is currently daily speculation about what the future of work will now look like and how employ might be feeling about it. Rather than trading in speculation and assumptions, I wanted to bring you some proper data to help us find out what is actually happening. With that in mind, my guest this week is Jon Wilson, CEO of totaljobs. Every year, Total Jobs works with their international partners in the network in conjunction with Boston Consulting to produce the largest survey of employees and job seekers in the world. The latest research is built on data gathered from over 200,000 respondents across 190 countries and looks at the pandemic’s impact on employment preferences and global talent mobility trends.
Matt Alder [00:02:10]:
Hi Jon, and welcome to the podcast.
Jon Wilson [00:02:12]:
Hey Matt, how are you?
Matt Alder [00:02:13]:
I’m very good, thank you and it’s an absolute pleasure to have you on the show. Could you just introduce yourself and tell everyone what you do?
Jon Wilson [00:02:20]:
Sure. Well, my name is Jon Wilson. I’m the CEO of a company called Total Jobs Group in the uk. Essentially we try and help people find a job that fits their life. We help companies find the talent that they’re looking for, heavily leverage our personal relationships as well as sophisticated autonomous matching. But interestingly, we’re part of a much, much larger group called stepstone. We have 3,500 employees worldwide and actually some of the things that we’re talking about today are as a result of another part of our organization called the Network, where essentially we partnered with leading online recruitment businesses in 130 countries around the world to make sure that we can solve global hiring needs for any of our customers, regardless of where they are.
Matt Alder [00:03:14]:
You have recently published the latest version of your global talent survey and we want to sort of dig into you some of the findings in our conversation. But by way of introduction, just tell us about the Global Talent Survey. What is it and how do you produce it?
Jon Wilson [00:03:30]:
Yeah, so we work with our partners in the Boston Consulting Group and this study essentially is the world’s largest study of workers. We started back in 2006 and we had 21,000 contributors to that survey right up to the present day, where we recently finished this current survey in March where we canvassed over 200,000 responses in 190 countries worldwide. So it really is a very in depth view of how people are thinking about their work life. So I would certainly encourage people to just Google search for the Global Talent survey. You’ll find it. There’s a number of different reports there and read at your leisure.
Matt Alder [00:04:22]:
Now there probably couldn’t be a more kind of interesting and crucial time to find out what’s going on in the world of work and how people are sort of viewing employment. So I think the people listening will find the key findings kind of absolutely fascinating because they cover a lot of the issues that are kind of live and being discussed right now. Just to break them down a bit, maybe let’s start by talking about remote working because that’s, you know, that’s been one of the biggest topics of the.
Matt Alder [00:04:50]:
Of the, of the last sort of.
Matt Alder [00:04:52]:
16 months or so. What proportion of the people sort of, you filled in the survey are actually working, are actually working remotely?
Jon Wilson [00:05:00]:
Yeah, well, interestingly, before the COVID Crisis began, about 30% of people will would have said that they work fully or partially remote across the globe. And actually what we see now in the advent of lockdowns, et cetera, globally, that that’s raised to just over 50% of the global workforce essentially working totally or partly from a remote location. So it’s a significant number of people.
Matt Alder [00:05:35]:
Yeah, I mean that’s an, I mean it’s an incredible statistic. It’s something that if we went back two years ago, it would be utterly unimaginable. But I suppose it kind of takes me to my next question, which is again, the thing that everyone’s discussing at the moment. I mean, is remote working set to continue after the pandemic? We hear from a lot of employers in terms of what they’re going to do, sending people back to the office or being forever work anywhere. What do the actual employees think?
Jon Wilson [00:06:02]:
Well, I think this is a really interesting time that we’re living in and I definitely think that not every, none of us have it all figured out for sure and it’s a pretty fluid situation. But actually when you speak to people like they’re pretty firm in what their beliefs are right now and 89% of people, they expect their job to either be fully or partially remote once COVID 19 restrictions ease. So for a lot of us, perception equals reality. If this is what people are thinking, this is a real, it’s a real kind of problem to be tackled. And I think for companies it’s about like, let’s be open to what does that mean? But also be fluid in terms that the, the picture is changing quite regularly and like I mentioned at the beginning, no one has it all figured out. I think, you know, realistically, you know, this hybrid working model that a lot of us are actually moving into now is some of the restrictions ease would seem to be something that most companies are embracing. I think about 59% of workers in the UK they’re calling for more flexible hours as well as like the flexible time and actually more ownership over their routine as well. And I think that’s something critical to say it’s okay to say let’s have part remote part in the office, but actually it’s that ownership over your routine that one creates a challenge for companies to be able to manage. But it’s what seems to be adding the value that employees are seeing with that expectation. It’s particularly true for women actually who are calling for more flexibility than their male colleagues, but they’re also less likely than men to want to work fully remote. And I think, you know, there’s a number of things that kind of come up significantly when people think about, you know, what’s most important for them and their roles right now. And it’s like good relationships with your colleagues, a good relationship with your boss, and then this work life balance which I think means different things for different people. But it really speaks to that hybrid working model where you know, you have room to be productive in your job and then also room to manage the real life kind of challenges that we all have outside of the office.
Matt Alder [00:08:38]:
Now one of the big advantages or seeming advantages of remote work that has been talked about, talked about a lot as this, this, this, you know, this concept of, of work from anywhere roles where people can be based in one country and be, be working in another country. Is that something that’s likely to become a trend?
Jon Wilson [00:08:59]:
Well, so yes, it is happening. I would say it’s early days. There’s examples where this type of opportunity represents an opportunity for employers. You can see that for a long time there have been skill shortages in most companies in the UK before the pandemic. You know, 75% of businesses have reported that they struggle to hire the talent that their business needs. So you have a problem looking for a solution. Obviously in the past year we’ve been able to show that it’s possible to work fully remotely in a lot of our roles. So surely there is an opportunity there for companies to be able to make use of that. The research shows that about 57% of people in the world, they are willing to work remotely and for an employer in a different country. So the opportunity is certainly there. So I think that the ground is fertile for that. Obviously it throws up challenges for employers too. And I think it’s like how easy is it to overcome these challenges then will feed into how likely is it that we’ll see work from anywhere roles being more prevalent in the, in the world.
Matt Alder [00:10:20]:
And I think that’s interesting because people don’t very often talk about the significant challenges of doing something like this. What do you think it means for employers and businesses who are looking to sort of recruit internationally distributed workforce?
Jon Wilson [00:10:36]:
I think if you’re going to, if you’re going to make this a part of how you run your business, then a number of things come up straight away is thinking about how do you adapt your EVP for candidates that are living in other countries, perhaps countries where you have no footprint, no brand equity. You know that that’s a, that’s a real challenge that will come up as a result of potentially seeking hires in a work anywhere world. And then also you kind of think, well, cultural differences, legal differences, expectation differences that happen for employees in different parts of the world. So likely we’re going to need to be thinking about, well, how do we specialize HR and thinking about that international remote work, how do we integrate those people alongside on site staff? How do you develop a sense of togetherness? So I think to some degree we’ve managed through the pandemic and come up with solutions for that. But if it’s part of how you’re going to work long term, then it needs to be more embedded into how the business operates. Clearly, thinking about how you use digital tools to drive productivity, communication, et cetera, is going to be critical. And then obviously then there’s the benchmarking about actually how do you make sure that you’re paying the right salaries across different locations to ensure that you do see the benefits of that, whilst also taking on the additional workload that it’s going to mean. But you obviously get to fill those skill gaps that you have whilst also being able to potentially make it more effective from a financial point of view.
Matt Alder [00:12:30]:
I mean, I think there’s loads of interesting points there, but I suppose just picking up on the integrating workers, the sense of togetherness that the employee experience. What’s the survey saying in terms of how people. What has people’s employee experience been like through the pandemic and has that changed what’s important to them about their job?
Jon Wilson [00:12:51]:
Yeah, I mean, obviously we get a lot of data through the survey and. And running an organization ourselves here is. You see and speak to your people all of the time. And I guess when we think about, like, what are the people saying in the survey, it’s important to understand that when we think about things like productivity, what we’re talking about is not an objective measure, but it is about how do people feel about their productivity? And I think not. I think the data shows that 70% of people say that they’re equally productive or more productive working at home. A lot talk about the extra time that they’re able to have because they’re not commuting and they’re able to make sure that they meet deadlines. They got a little bit more headspace to think and they can do the necessary admin that sits around their role. So there’s definitely some benefits there. And I think when you have engaged employees and they do use that time to actually make sure that they get their job done, as it were. But critically, and it’s probably not very surprising, people really do miss customer interactions. So, like physical meetings, getting together with colleagues, you know, that incidental information that you get from your peers when you’re working together, you hear what’s going on, you understand challenges or solutions that people are dealing with. And obviously, emails and video calls seem to clog our diaries. And also it means that those incidental moments are not happening. You know, that bumping into someone at the water machine or the coffee machine, that doesn’t happen. And I don’t know if you’ve experienced this, Matt, but whenever you want to have a conversation with someone, you’ve got to set a bit of time in your diary and that means that those incidentals are not happening. So people really do miss that element of interaction. So I think it also shows that there’s very much a place for working remote, but there’s absolutely a place for working with colleagues in an office environment as well.
Matt Alder [00:14:55]:
Yeah, I mean, absolutely. And I think that that’s what everyone’s kind of been, been missing, those, those kind of more informal conversations and to be honest with you, just the social contact of being with people who are.
Matt Alder [00:15:07]:
Outside of your household. So yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s going.
Matt Alder [00:15:12]:
To be really interesting to see, to see how that kind of pans out. You spoke earlier, earlier about how a rise in flexible working would, would be, would be beneficial to, to women in particular. It’s very clear that div inclusion has been huge discussion topics amongst employers in the last 12 months. What are job seekers and employees saying about it?
Jon Wilson [00:15:33]:
Yeah, look, I think the research is showing that this is a major concern is not the right word, but it’s a major issue for people and it’s also critical when people are making decisions about where they work, is what is their company, what is their potential employer doing. When we look at issues of diversity, equity and inclusion, so we see that 51% of people say they wouldn’t even apply for a job with a company whose policies don’t apply or don’t align with their, their own values when it comes to DE and I. So that’s, that’s significant. Which means that one, as an employer, not only do you need to be doing the work within your own business, but you need to be able to talk to potential employees about that. We actually see a similar amount of people saying that sustainability is also something that they take into account. So some of those environmental issues and we know from thinking about the same challenges within our own organization and we kind of think about employer value proposition, we think about diversity and equity inclusion. And for me to have an evp, you’ve got to be valuable to your employees. And what does that mean? It means that for us it’s about kind of listening to what they’re saying so that we can align our business values with our people. But I think also understanding that everybody who works in your organization has a stake in the business. Most companies listen to their shareholders. So we do the same with our employees here and make sure that our ERGs are heavily supported with frontline management. So that those changes that are taking place in our society, those ideas that are gaining interest within our staff become ways of working within our organization. And so that when someone applies for a job here and they say, well, what are you doing about that? Actually, it’s not really about what are we doing to help attract people, it’s what are we doing to help make this a great place to work for our staff and I think that if you start from the inside out, it gives you the opportunity to make sure that you can appeal to that 51% of people who really need to align on this.
Matt Alder [00:18:07]:
Obviously digital transformation has been a massive theme and whole industries changing and jobs changing and that’s obviously has an impact on people and the jobs that they do. What about the jobs that people are looking for, the jobs that they’re doing? Are people open to reskilling? Are they thinking about sort of changing careers?
Jon Wilson [00:18:30]:
Yeah, we see a significant rise in that actually. I think a lot of people that are in either low skilled or entry level roles were the first people to be impacted by lockdowns. A lot of these are traditionally in the service industry or the hospitality industry. You see a high number of people that are actively looking to retrain. Interestingly, we also have about 40% of people that are actually concerned about automation during the pandemic. So obviously technology is stepping in to solve some of the issues that we have when it comes to amendments that we’ve had to make to our business through Covid restrictions and actually see that even more prevalent for younger people, 46% of those people in their 20s. So people are definitely worried about it. And actually when you look, well, what jobs are people doing that have the highest concern? It’s actually in industries like finance and insurance and telecoms. Those are, those tend to be industries where people do think about the automation side of things as well as services and retail. So I think that when you think one, what are people concerned about when it comes to automation? That’s where it lends in. And the technology that we’ve used over the last year is kind of driving some of that. But then also you kind of think, well, who are those putting their hands up to say they’re more willing to retrain? And those are areas, like I mentioned, that may have been impacted more heavily through lockdown. So we see it in hospitality, we see it in cleaning, manufacturing, customer service. People in those roles certainly have much, much more appetite for reskilling.
Matt Alder [00:20:19]:
So as a final question, it’s obviously very difficult to make predictions, particularly when we’ve had such seismic shifts in work and employment over the last 18 months. But what do you think we’re likely to see as the key trends and the key talking points over the next sort of year, year and a half?
Jon Wilson [00:20:39]:
I’d probably think about breaking it into a couple of chunks, really. If I think about employment, a lot of what we’ve discussed in the past few minutes is going to be prominent. I Think betting in remote working and new hybrid models is going to be challenging, difficult, rewarding. We’re going to make mistakes. You know, there’s a lot that’s going to happen there and I think that’s going to occupy a lot of the conversation. And I think many of us got used to working full time remote because we were forced to. So for employers, managing the shift to a mix is going to be key, not only for retention, but also productivity, which is critical for business. And then that kind of leads into the L and D strategy that businesses have is, obviously, we want to retain key talent, but we also need to be able to harness the opportunity that’s offered by people who are looking to change their careers and come from untapped talent pools. You may see recently that actually when we look at people’s willingness to move right now, you know, the global search volume for jobs is actually lower than we would expect, particularly in the market that we’re in, which really just puts more emphasis on businesses to make sure that they’re thinking about how they not only support the staff that they have, but think about tapping into those additional pools. It also then leads into, well, actually more broadly, like, how do we think about how we want to recruit and like, what technology are we going to use or what methods are we going to use to help us stand out? Particularly like in a market that we have today where you obviously have a lot of business opening up and there’s still confidence yet to creep into the candidate market. So standing out in a competitive arena is a challenge for businesses. The research that we see on our own platform is that businesses are exploring new ways and new methods of recruiting. Either they’re looking for flexibility based on whatever needs that they have at the time. Clearly, the last year has been a big shock, so businesses need to be able to flex with that. I think that’s going to be important. I think speed to hire is also critical as people are looking to accelerate out of the pandemic. So things like using AI and autonomous matching to help find talent quickly, it’s obviously something that perhaps more unique to total jobs. But then also thinking about actually how do we save time in and around, say, first interviews and screening by using like a mix of live or automated video interviews to really help with that flow through when we are looking to hire new talent. And critically, like we talked about a little bit earlier, that diversity, equity and inclusion is actually, how do you action your strategy that says, I want to recruit from a more diverse talent pool? And I think companies with the ability to help support those strategies will see kind of more action around that area. But I think it’s going to be more critical for businesses to really have a strategy on how they’re going to execute there as well. So hopefully that’s maybe covered a number of the points, but I think we’re right at that inflection point right now where we’re going to see some interesting moves from companies across the world. So I’m looking forward to seeing how we all react to it.
Matt Alder [00:24:33]:
And just as a kind of an extra final question, what are you doing as a vendor to the industry to support the way that things are changing?
Jon Wilson [00:24:41]:
So I think across Total Jobs, we’ve like many businesses, been listening to the challenges that our customers have. So a number of things where for instance I talked about flexibility a little bit earlier is Total Jobs has moved away significantly from being like a traditional job board where you purchase a number of ads and you use them over the year. I think those days have moved on and some of our customers need to be able to hire very strategically. So we have a performance based product perhaps where you only pay for the applications that you receive. And of course you can start and stop that as and when you need to. We also have a number of products to help organizations with their DEI strategy where we’re able to create diverse candidate pools for those companies that are looking to target there. And what we’ve seen is that being able to offer those innovative solutions helps other businesses one see the companies like Total Jobs significantly beyond the job board. So as we move into different performance based products, different interviewing products, and the ability to help customers meet their goals, it really is stretching us to make sure that we create the right products that meet those needs. And like I say, there’s a range of those that have helped customers through this period and will help as we move into growth for most businesses this year.
Matt Alder [00:26:15]:
Jon, thank you very much for talking to me.
Jon Wilson [00:26:16]:
Thank you, Matt.
Matt Alder [00:26:18]:
My thanks to Jon Wilson. You can subscribe to this podcast in Apple Podcasts on Spotify or via your podcasting app of choice. Please also follow the show on Instagram. You can find us by searching for Recruiting Future. You can search all the past episodes@recruitingfuture.com on that site. You can also subscribe to the mailing list to get the inside track about everything that’s coming up on the show. Thanks very much for listening. I’ll be back next time and I hope you’ll join me.
