In some industries, aging workforces and deepening skill shortages mean companies can no longer rely on hiring the experienced workers they need. The only realistic option is to grow their own, and that puts apprenticeship schemes right at the centre of workforce planning.
Running a programme at that scale raises questions that go well beyond recruiting. Culture shapes whether people stay, mentoring determines whether skills actually transfer, and long-term success often depends on governments understanding how to direct support towards the future talent that industries actually need.
So what makes an apprenticeship scheme genuinely effective for high-skilled talent, and what has to be in place around it to make it work?
My guest this week is David Dart, Chief People Officer at Caliber Holdings. In our conversation, David shares what he’s learned building a skilled-talent pipeline at scale.
In the interview, we discuss:
The unique talent challenges in recruiting auto body technicians
Skills shortages and an aging workforce
Culture and retention
The importance of mentoring
The impact of AI on jobs
The importance of trades careers and the need for government support
What does the future look like?
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00:00
Matt Alder
Across many industries, apprenticeships offer the best way to tackle skill shortages and aging workforces. So what makes the most effective schemes work? Keep listening to find out.
00:12
Matt Alder
Support for this podcast comes from Maki. Maki enables businesses to build intelligent, science backed hiring strategies that predict on the job performance and adapt as roles and markets change. Companies today face a surge of undifferentiated AI, inflated CVs and often rely on manual screening or inconsistent processes. This leads to missed talent, weaker performance and a poor candidate experience. Maki combines science based assessments, behavioral signals and autonomous AI agents into one integrated engine. It evaluates every candidate, predicts who will succeed and continuously improves hiring outcomes. Teams hire faster, more fairly and at a lower cost while delivering stronger on the job performance and a better experience for candidates and customers. To find out more, you can go to makipeople.com and Maki is spelled M A K I, and that’s makipeople.com.
01:39
Matt Alder
Hi there. Welcome to episode 799 of Recruiting Future with me Matt Alder. In some industries, aging workforces and deepening skill shortages mean companies can no longer rely on hiring the experienced workers they need. The only realistic option is for them to grow their own and that puts apprenticeship schemes right at the centre of workforce planning. Running a programme at that scale raises questions that go well beyond recruiting. Culture shapes whether people stay, mentoring determines whether skills actually transfer and long term success often depends on governments understanding how to direct support towards the future talent that industries actually need. So what makes an apprenticeship scheme generally effective for high skilled talent and what has to be in place around it to make it work? My guest this week is David Dart, Chief People Officer at Caliber Holdings. In our conversation David shares what he’s learnt.
02:37
Matt Alder
Building an apprenticeship scheme for skilled talent at Scale. Hi David and welcome to the podcast.
02:44
David Dart
Thank you, appreciate it.
02:45
Matt Alder
An absolute pleasure to have you on the show. Please could you introduce yourself and tell everyone what you do?
02:51
David Dart
Absolutely. Yep. David Dart, I’m the Chief People officer at Caliber holdings, also better known potentially as Caliber Collision, but we have some other businesses, we have a glass business, we do some calibration as well, but we have a fleet business. So like these other kind of collision adjacent businesses to make sure that we’re full service for the auto collision industry. I’ve been here three and a half years. I was brought in really as the first kind of professionally trained HR, professionally experienced HR leader for the company were about 22,000 when I got here. We’re a little over 30,000 employees now. Teammates as we call them.
03:35
David Dart
And I come from various background of multi unit organizations and other industries as well but kind of specialized more in multi unit large scalable companies and here to kind of help build the scalable platform and the training programs that are required to lead us into that next phase of our company’s history.
03:57
Matt Alder
Now there’s some real unique things about the talent challenges that you’ve got and who you hire and how you develop people sort of particularly around the skilled technicians that you use. Tell us a little bit about that. What makes hiring them and developing them so different from what happens in other industries.
04:16
David Dart
This has been very interesting to transition into the collision industry out of some of the other multi units that I’ve been a part of because the, you know it’s really. I wanted to go to another frontline led organization and what I mean by that is any multi unit is only as good as the frontline teammate interfacing with the customer. And you can’t book the revenue until you complete the repair order and you can’t complete the repair order unless you have the technician to perform the work. So this is frontline led and but this is different in that our technicians are highly skilled. It takes probably three to five years to become fully productive as an experienced body technician. Think about the complexity of every collision that happens. Every. There’s so many variabilities with regard to how the original equipment manufacturers are thinking.
05:05
David Dart
Gm, Audi, the BMW, those sorts of, you know, the big auto suppliers, they all put their vehicles together differently. No collision is the same. Some have just structural but many have structural and mechanical issues with them. So that complexity is significant. In addition to that the all of the technicians own their own tools. So there’s an element of I’m my own, I might, I’m, I’m the person who owns all of these things. So I’m kind of an independent contractor mentality. A little bit of that that exists. And then if you think about the fact of the matter is that a lot of our technicians are aging out in the industry because of the de emphasis here in the US for a long period of time of saying trades aren’t necessary.
05:53
David Dart
We really need to focus on bachelor’s degrees and a lot of push for people to go to college as opposed to explore some of the trades, skilled trades that are out there. So that was their diminishing of that happened. And now you look at what’s happening to our workforce, we have to bring more people in. So it is very different than the other places I’ve been because you can get a pest technician as an example, pretty productive, almost fully productive in about three or four months. The, the turnover might be high in that first three or four months because some, you know, people find out what the role really is and they might not love it, but you can get them pretty productive. It literally takes three to five years to get fully productive as a body technician.
06:35
David Dart
So that does pose a significant number of challenges in this industry.
06:40
Matt Alder
I can imagine that’s a kind of a long time to get up to speed and an aging out workforce as well. One of the solutions that I know that you’ve come up with around this is an apprenticeship program. Tell us how that worked and what you’re sort of trying to achieve with that.
06:55
David Dart
So we recognized a few years ago, this, prior to my arrival, that it was necessary to help build this next wave of qualified technicians in the industry. And as the industry leader we wanted to take a leadership position. We think all companies need to take this seriously. The larger multi unit, large MSOs need to take this seriously because we have to build for the future. But we, obviously it’s our own business situation that we need to make sure that we take care of our customers. And so we need more technicians to do that. So we made a commitment to invest in technician apprentice program, what we call tap and that is a competency based program that you have to complete, typically takes 12 to 18 months to complete. The competencies that are associated with becoming a TAP graduate at the end of that.
07:50
David Dart
And so there’s incentives in place for our mentors. But you know, focusing on hiring, we love to hire people out of either trade programs already. So like if you’re at a trade school and you’re graduating, we love those people because they’ve been in and around work, the work environment in a school setting. But also anyone who’s been around vehicles as an early start for them. And we even do some hiring out of high school. So like it is a great program because you can enter the program with very little skills. And we really look to bring you up to speed as quickly as we can with the basics around the program.
08:27
David Dart
And then once you graduate, you know, we still have some continued mentoring that we try to make sure that people aren’t just like thrown to the wolves at the end of that 12 or 18 months. They, they’re assigned somebody who’s going to help look out for them and make sure that they can manage the work because it can be, you got to plan your day effectively when you become a standalone body technician. So it does work. We have a little over 2,000 graduates now that are with us and you know, in the organization and it’s been a, you know, very important solution. Had we not had this group of people over the course of the last few years, we have met a lot of our goals as an organization for growth because we just wouldn’t have enough people to do it.
09:09
David Dart
So it’s been a really important boost to the company just having this workforce, you know, constantly coming in and we can do the ebbs and flows of how many we have in the program based on the demand in the industry. So you know, we at one point we might have 1800 apprentices in the program at one time. But you know, then we’ll, we can adjust that down based on the demand environment. But it’s been a very great pipeline for us from a repair hour perspective.
09:34
Matt Alder
You mentioned at the beginning of the conversation that there’s an independent contractor mentality amongst your workforce. Does that impact the way that mentorship works between the apprentices and the more experienced technicians?
09:47
David Dart
Well, I think I go back to our culture first because while yes, there might be a, an error of an ability to actually view yourself as an independent contractor, you’re the owner of your tools, you’re the owner of your life, you have agency, you know, you’re not dependent on the company to provide you with, you know, the basics of actually auto repair. We obviously we have a lot of heavy equipment that we provide for them to do their jobs well. But it really at first say like culture is really important for caliber because if you create a, a highly collaborative, connected, team based culture at your centers, you don’t get turnover. Like they might view themselves as an independent contractor, but they don’t want to lead because they love it there. Right.
10:34
David Dart
And you certainly need, they want hands on cars and those sorts of things. But in the ebbs and flows of demand, even in seasonality, if you create a fantastic environment at the center level, you don’t see that, you don’t see the turnover. And so I think that’s an important element I just want to mention. But the one thing I would say is mentorship has been really important engagement element for us too. There are a ton of people who love doing the mentoring because it’s such a rewarding experience to teach someone the skill that you’ve built over 15, 20 years and you can pass that on to the next generation.
11:10
David Dart
We have a lot of family that enter this industry and so there are some father, son mentors that we’ve had, father daughter mentors that we’ve had in our mentor apprentice that we’ve had in our program. It’s a very family friendly, family oriented, you trade, you’re passing on a trade to your children. And so that’s been a really interesting element of it as well. But the mentors who continue to build apprentices into graduates and then body technicians, experienced body techs, are really proud of that work. We certainly have financial incentives for that because it is so valuable to us too. But you can see the engagement that happens. The turnover rates of our mentors and the turnover rates of our apprentices that turn. Graduates are significantly lower than our experienced body technician turnover.
12:00
David Dart
So it’s another retentive element to it because you’re really pouring back into somebody else to help them reach their full potential. And, and mentors are a big part of that. That’s our first pillar of our caliber home that really talks about how we do things and it’s like we want to inspire every teammate to reach their full potential. And mentors are then pouring themselves into apprentices and so it really creates a lot of stickiness for them as well as pride, you know, in the company and in what they do as a technician and a leader.
12:32
Matt Alder
Just to kind of zoom in on what you were saying about turnover and culture there. So obviously this is a really big investment. So the retention of the apprentices when they graduate is also very positive.
12:45
David Dart
Yes, it’s significantly lower than our, than the overall body technician turnover. I think you obviously, if you’ve kind of provided someone with a lifelong skill that will allow them to make, if they become a very experienced and skilled technician, they’re, you’re talking about, you know, six figure, you’re, you know, 1001-201301-50000 a year that you can make as an experienced body technician. There are some that run technician teams that make even more than that. So it is a lifelong skill that will allow you earning potential. In addition to that, if you wanted to come into management, you have that opportunity too. So once you pour some of that into an individual, it obviously creates additional retentive environment for them because they’re like, hey look, these guys made me into something that can really build a whole career around.
13:38
David Dart
So that does have a really strong connection. And in this industry, more so than any industry I’ve been a part of. The cost of technician turnover is substantially higher. It’s very difficult to replace experienced body technicians. There’s a lot of churn in the industry where people leave and come back and so you really want. Every time you lose somebody, you know, and that bay remains open where they would normally be, you’re losing revenue and profit, you know, every month that you do it. And if you have to build that from an apprentice, you’re obviously, it’s going to take a long ramp time to get that foot filled. So you, it’s really great to have, you know, the retention lower anyway. You can lower that. It’s really beneficial to the company and helps you reinvest in the organization as a whole. Foreign.
14:27
Matt Alder
Let’s talk about AI a little bit because it’s obviously shaking up a lot of industries. It’s changing a lot of. A lot of jobs. How does it apply to what you do? Are there any areas where AI is kind of shifting work in a particular direction? And are there areas that are just always going to be AI proof?
14:47
David Dart
Yeah. The great thing about this industry is that we do have some AI proofing built in. It’s going to be a long time before the AI or robots have an ability to repair a vehicle the way our people can. And it’s really remarkable. We call them artisans. But if you look at someone who can do both structural and mechanical at a very high level, they can take any vehicle that’s damaged and completely like you think you’d total it. And it’s like they could say, I can do that. Right. They can take the entire vehicle apart, put it back together to include mechanical improvements, and you wouldn’t even know it was in an accident. That’s real skill. So think about. That’s going to be a very, very long time before AI or robots are going to actually do that kind of work for us.
15:36
David Dart
So that’s one element of why it should be attractive for young people who are looking to start a career that are interested in the trades that come into our industry. But AI does have a role. There’s certainly a significant amount of back office in a company like this that can be automated to make sure there’s a better customer service experience for both insurance carriers as well as our drivers who come in with damaged vehicles. To make sure that our billing is done quickly and accurately, correctly, to make sure that we are processing any of those invoices effectively, but really, AI in the center level is going to be oriented around estimating. So the accuracy, the estimate is an important thing for the carriers. And obviously, you don’t want, you want to, you want it to be. We want to capture the.
16:22
David Dart
All the things that we’ve agreed to with our carrier partners, but we don’t want to overwrite them and we don’t want to underwrite them. We don’t want to overwrite them for the insurance carriers, so they care about that. And we don’t want to underwrite for us because, like, we want to make sure we’re capturing the full value of our differentiated offering. So AI can really do a remarkable job already today. And it just is going to continue to advance of, you know, looking at the vin, understanding what that vehicle is, all the parts that are associated with that vehicle. So you have more accuracy in the parts that you order. So you don’t have errors. Human error that comes in with, oh, I ordered the wrong part. Because the, you know, the. That year there were two different types of fenders.
17:04
David Dart
And for that vehicle, it’s just slightly different in one than the other. So it kind of eliminates some of these basic issues that you will have in parts ordering because it clears it up, but it can also identify where the crumpling is and how many parts you may have to order for it, what other type of adhesives might be required in that repair. And really get you 95% accurate. And then you just have to close with the human being just on the last, you know, 5% to make sure that it’s accurate. So there are a lot of things that are out there now that helps us be more efficient, effective and accurate with these sorts of tools that are available today.
17:44
David Dart
The other thing that it will help us with the complex repairs, so advising and the complexity of the repair so that there will be this oversight that AI can provide where you’re actually looking at things through maybe like Google Glasses or Meta Glasses, where you’re like looking at the vehicle and you’re asking questions of, like, what are some repair techniques that might best, best associated with this vehicle? So they won’t be able to do the work. Obviously, our people will do the work, our technicians will be able to do the work. But getting that advice, right now we have quality technical coaches that provide a lot of that. And some of that can be. We won’t have to have maybe as many quality technical coaches.
18:23
David Dart
We’ll have, you know, the AI could provide some advice based on the knowledge base that we have as an organization. So again, the technicians are pretty AI proof. But there are use cases for AI that are rapidly being introduced in the industry and a lot of it is around estimating and then front office management to make sure that we get our bills paid and our invoices out and those sorts of things.
18:50
Matt Alder
You mentioned that one of the issues behind the skill shortages that you’re dealing with has been the deprioritization or the lack of emphasis put on getting people into careers in trades. What needs to change in terms of policy or funding to support industries like yours building the workforce that you actually need in the future.
19:13
David Dart
Thanks for the question. I think this is an important one. There has been, obviously there’s been an awful. When trades were de emphasized, there was a real push to have a lot of government assistance in paying for tuition at 2 and 4 year universities. And so in the past the trades have been focused by like General. My dad is a graduate of the apprentice program, if you will, from General Motors. So he was an electrician apprentice and then became an elevator apprentice and had a wonderful career with General Motors. But those programs have been de emphasized. General Motors paid for all of those. They were part of their operating model. And as companies went away from them, we’re now building them and some of these mid sized companies as well as us, and we have the ability to invest in this.
20:04
David Dart
But mid sized companies will really struggle with having enough scale to invest in programs such as this. So we are working with other large MSOs in the industry to ensure the Wages act, which is an important element that we’re actually introducing with other Congress people and senators. The Texas legislature has been really helpful with this, but really trying to say, hey look, we need some investment and help at a high level to reduce the financial burden on employers that sponsor apprenticeship programs so that maybe the federal government can help drive better productivity of our citizens by giving these tax credits or wage subsidies for employers who are hiring apprentices and then some incentives for creating or expanded some of these apprentice programs. Things like classroom training, classroom instruction and just overall training costs are significant.
21:03
David Dart
We do provide initial kind of toolkit toolbox for our apprentices when they join the company becomes theirs after 90 days. But that’s an expense, right? There’s a cost to that. But that I think really does help, you know, if we could get some additional funding in the industry to help jumpstart these programs so that there’s more and more people that are coming in and learning what a great career this can be, especially the smaller, the small and mid sized companies are really going to struggle with this. So we’re, as the industry leader, we’re trying to do this for the entire organization. The Department of Labor is really supportive of this in the current administration. So we hope that we can get the wages act across the finish line, you know, hopefully in the next, it’s in committee. So it takes some time.
21:48
David Dart
But we think this could be a real great jump start for not just our industry, but others that are looking at apprenticeship programs.
21:54
Matt Alder
Final question. What do you think things are going to look like in two or three years time? How’s your industry going to change and what role is the programs that you have going to play in shaping that?
22:07
David Dart
Well, I think the, if you talk about AI with the advanced driving assistance systems or adas, like all getting used to you using them, about half the cars, what we would call the car park are adas enabled. And so we’re no longer bumping into our neighbor in the grocery store parking lot. Right. It’s, these are, the severity of the accidents are higher and higher because the lower ones aren’t coming into the shop because they just don’t happen as often as they still happen. But not like the frequency that they did before because these cameras and sensors and the US consumer is learning how to use them and so reducing more and more of the accidents that happen out there as well as these AI driving capabilities are also advancing really quickly.
22:56
David Dart
So the industry will look different I think, because there will be some additional consolidation in the industry, but it doesn’t change the fact that we still need people to do the work. Like I said at the very beginning of our conversation or close to the beginning, robots aren’t coming around the corner to actually do these complex repairs tomorrow. It’s going to be a long time. Three, five, ten years from now, we’ll still have the need for trained skilled people to do the work. And so I don’t think anything is going to change from that perspective. Maybe the incidences are going to reduce, so the supply in the industry will be reduced, but there’ll still be need for calibration and people do that as well. And, and so we think it’s going to continue on.
23:40
David Dart
And that’s why apprenticeship programs like we have will continue to go on into the future because there’ll still be a need for consistent supply of trained, effective talent. And the other thing too is that all these technological technology changes are so are rapidly happening in the industry. So there’s a constant need for training as well. It’s not just the apprentices, but we have to continue to train our existing body technicians, all of our graduates, so that there’s like a graduate program, right? A post grad program for our technicians that graduate from the TAP program. But we also need to continue to train our existing body technicians on handling some of these advanced materials that are coming in. It’s far different than how we might handle steel. Aluminum is very different as an example. So we have to actually get certified on those things.
24:29
David Dart
So there’s going to be an awful lot of training. It’s just going to continue to advance for us to make sure that we have the people qualified to do the work.
24:36
Matt Alder
David, thank you very much for talking to me.
24:38
David Dart
I appreciate it. Thank you.
24:40
Matt Alder
My thanks to David. You can follow this podcast on Apple Podcasts on Spotify or wherever you listen to your podcasts. You can search all the past episodes at recruitingfuture.com on that site. You can also subscribe to our weekly newsletter, Recruiting Future Feast, and get the inside track on everything that’s coming up on the show. Thanks very much for listening. I’ll be back next time and I hope you’ll join me.
