Welcome to a unique cross over show where The Recruiting Future Podcast and The Chad & Cheese Show collide. For those of you not familiar with Chad and Cheese, their show is an institution in the recruitment technology space billing itself as “HR’s most dangerous podcast”.
I finally got to meet the guys face to face in Lisbon a few weeks back and, as you’ll hear, Chad hatched this plan for a podcast crossover.
This show will also be broadcast as an episode of the Chad and Cheese show with a slightly different edit. It a long and boring story but I’ve had to cut out the usual profanity that comes with an episode of the Chad and Cheese show due to Apple Podcasts distribution restrictions in some of the countries where my show has an audience. So with that said take a listen for a discussion round recruiting technology adoption and future of the space and if you want to hear the version with all the swearing (although there wasn’t really that much) then you can check that out at Chadandcheese.com afterwards.
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Transcript:
Matt Alder [00:00:00]:
Support for this podcast comes from Metashift, my talent acquisition consulting business. In an increasingly competitive world for talent, metashift helps employers dramatically improve the quality of their talent acquisition by turbocharging their recruitment, marketing, employer, brand and career site strategies, as well as being a guiding light through the exponentially confusing world of recruiting technology. If you want to find out more about how Metashift can help you, then please get in touch with me via email@mattashift.co.uk that’s mattashift.co.uk.
Matt Alder [00:00:59]:
Hi everyone, this is Matt Alder. Welcome to a special crossover show where the Recruiting Future podcast and the Chad and Cheese show collide. For those of you not familiar with Chad and Cheese, their podcast is an institution in the recruiting technology space, billing itself as HR’s most dangerous podcast. I finally got to meet the guys face to face in Lisbon a few weeks back, and as you’ll hear, Chad hatched this for a podcast crossover. This show will also be broadcast as an episode of the Chad and Cheese show with a slightly different edit. It’s a long and boring story, but I’ve had to cut out the usual profanity that comes with an episode of the Chad and Cheese show due to Apple podcast distribution restrictions in some of the countries where my show has an audience. So with that said, keep listening for discussion around recruiting, technology adoption and the future of the space. And if you want to hear the version with all the swearing, I’m. Although, there wasn’t really that much that you can check that out at chad and cheese.com afterwards.
Chad Sowash [00:02:05]:
Push record already. Jesus.
Matt Alder [00:02:07]:
Yeah, let’s just get started. Come on.
Joel Cheeseman [00:02:09]:
I’m so confused right now.
Matt Alder [00:02:11]:
Absolutely. Who. Whose show? Whose show am I on? Whose show is this? It’s. It’s all a bit strange.
Chad Sowash [00:02:16]:
This is our collective show, so for everybody that’s out there. Actually, we finally got a chance to meet Matt in Portugal and I had this crazy idea of, hey, let’s just sit down and do a crossover podcast where we’re going to be on Matt’s pod, he’s going to be on our pod, and we’re going to just have a free for all. So how’s that sound?
Joel Cheeseman [00:02:37]:
All your ideas are crazy, by the way. You don’t have to like put crazy idea, just say idea and people know it’s crazy.
Chad Sowash [00:02:43]:
That’s redundant is what you’re saying.
Joel Cheeseman [00:02:45]:
Yeah, yeah. So never mind. The Bullocks. We have Britains, Edinburgh’s Matt Alder on, I guess because he’s, he’s pushing this out as his show and we’re pushing it out as our show. We should probably all do quick introductions because his audience doesn’t know us possibly. And our audience doesn’t know him possibly. So should we get that out of the way?
Chad Sowash [00:03:05]:
Yeah, let’s let Matt go first.
Matt Alder [00:03:07]:
Yeah, let’s. Let’s do it. So I’m Matt Alder and I run the Recruiting Future podcast, which some of you, Some of you will be listening to. Thank you.
Joel Cheeseman [00:03:18]:
You’re welcome.
Matt Alder [00:03:19]:
Which some of you will be listening to right now in this kind of weird, weird crossover. Crossover thing that we’re doing. The show’s been going four years and every week I interview thought leaders and practitioners about the changing nature of talent acquisition and the future of recruiting.
Joel Cheeseman [00:03:36]:
So you’re primarily practitioners, whereas we’re more, we’re more vendor side. You’re more the practitioners.
Matt Alder [00:03:42]:
Okay, yeah, absolutely, absolutely. So, I mean, tell us about your show for my audience.
Joel Cheeseman [00:03:46]:
We are a, I guess a weekly roundup of news from the industry, primarily what vendors are doing, who’s buying whom and who’s doing what and how monster commercials are and how indeed’s going down the tubes. That’s kind of the stuff that we talk about. We have a show called Firing Squad that is sort of like Shark Tank for startups. We have a. Usually at least two times a month we do a deep dive into something like automation, AI, chatbots, whatever, sort of interesting. And, and in the now and then we sort of do a bunch of side. I don’t know, what else would you add?
Chad Sowash [00:04:24]:
Yeah, the shred. I mean, our focus. Yeah, our focus is to be able to help all those individuals that are out there, whether they’re talent acquisition or their vendors, to better understand what the hell’s going on in the landscape. There’s so much noise out there right now. We’ll do the research, we’ll put it out, obviously with our opinion. But you get a lot of content about a lot of that’s happening in our industry and people seem to dig it.
Joel Cheeseman [00:04:51]:
Exactly.
Chad Sowash [00:04:52]:
So you’re in talking, in talking with obviously talent acquisition professionals, staffing professionals, what have you, what are you seeing today as one of their biggest issues that you’re trying to help them through, or they’re listening to your podcast to be able to try to get some, some hints and, or shortcuts through.
Matt Alder [00:05:10]:
Interesting question, because I think the answer to it comes back to something that something that you guys just said. I think the biggest challenge I’m finding lots of talent acquisition professionals have is the sheer amount of noise in the marketplace. So people are really struggling to get their head around the technology that’s available and how it might actually help solve their problems and add some value to them. There’s this great sense that people are missing out on some silver bullet technology and just a lot of confusion about what’s out there and how it, it.
Joel Cheeseman [00:05:42]:
Could work and how are they dealing with learning about the new stuff? Are they putting their head in the sand? Are they actively trying to figure it all out?
Matt Alder [00:05:49]:
I think what I find is that a lot of the people who are really getting on top of this are talking to their peers about it. So going to events, finding out who’s using what and how it’s working for them. And really that’s kind of one of the objectives of my podcast, is to get people on, talk about how they’re sort of facing their talent acquisition challenges, the methods they’re using, the technology they’re using, what’s working, what’s not working, and what’s never going to work.
Joel Cheeseman [00:06:15]:
That’s great because I have this, I have this theory that like, all the emails that go out, the content marketing, like the typical sort of interruption marketing is all wasted dollars in many aspects because a lot of this is just social media. Hey, who do you guys use as an ats? Like, hey, who does everybody use for their chat bot? Like, are you saying that that’s primarily how people make buying decisions today?
Matt Alder [00:06:39]:
I think it’s, I think it’s part of it. Um, I, I, I, I do, I do have sometimes a bit of an issue with those, those kind of social media requests because I think that if you’re just asking randomly on Facebook, hey, what’s a good ats? I, I think it’s difficult to get a good answer because people will, will not appreciate your, your unique challenges or your objectives or the type of company you are. So, you know, I, I think that’s kind of, that’s one end of it. But I do think that the, the events, the, the, the peer to peer convers, it’s driving a lot of this stuff because I think that a lot of the marketing that comes out into this space is really about the vendor’s own objectives. So it’s like they’ve kind of got together and say, hey, what problems do we solve? These are great problems. We’ll solve them. And a lot of the time I don’t think they actually talk to their potential customers or think about what, you know, what issues they actually have. So I think sometimes technology will solve a problem very effectively, but that problem might be number 50 on the list of problems that, that someone working in talent acquisition actually has.
Chad Sowash [00:07:47]:
Well, and don’t you find that most of these companies really don’t truly understand what their problems are? They’re hearing so much noise out there. And then Jenny from across the street said her ATS was the best. Yeah, process. I feel like the thing that companies need to really focus on today is their process. They have like a 1990s process methodology that they try to jam into their technology, which just doesn’t work. And then they try to layer more technology on. On it before they really, truly find out what their process should be. And will that process actually alleviate some of those problems and then prioritization of those problems? And then at that point, after you’ve gone through all of that, then start talking about technology, but not until then.
Matt Alder [00:08:34]:
Yeah, absolutely. I couldn’t, I couldn’t agree with that. I couldn’t agree with that more. I think some of the best guests I’ve had on my show are the people who’ve gone all the way back to understanding what their objectives, what their objectives are and then building from there. It’s like, well, what actually are our problems? Do these problems actually properly align to where our business is going? Are they the right problems to be solving? And then how do we do that? What’s the best way to solve it? And then technology is the kind of, the final, the final piece of that puzzle.
Joel Cheeseman [00:09:02]:
Do you find it’s hard to get corporate folks to open up to you?
Matt Alder [00:09:06]:
Good question. For the most, I’m kind of working off a bit of a fake sample, I think, because I was going to say no. I have some great guests and they always sort of talk about what they’re doing. But I think my guests are a subset of, of that kind of corporate population, if you like, because I think they’re people who are open and really happy about talking, talking about what they’re doing. They’ve got a story to. They’ve got a story to share. They’ve some. They’ve done something. They’ve done something good. So the guests that I have on, no problem at all. They’re, you know, they’re very, very open to, to, to share and share their learnings. Whether that’s the same for, you know, everyone works in talent acquisition, probably, probably not.
Joel Cheeseman [00:09:52]:
So we know you’re British and you’re polite, but what do you Got for us. Any questions?
Matt Alder [00:09:55]:
Yeah, so I’ve got a few, I’ve got a few questions. So you claim to be HR’s most dangerous podcast, and I was talking to someone who isn’t in HR or recruiting about, about your show actually the other day, and they asked me why was it, why was it so dangerous? So, you know, why are you so dangerous?
Joel Cheeseman [00:10:11]:
No, I think, I mean, my answer is, you know, Chad and I are at a point in our careers, you know, we kind of work for ourselves. We don’t have really any corporate interests. We can be blunt. We both of our personalities are sort of no nonsense. I think a lot of the podcasts out there, you know, someone’s, someone’s got an association they got to think about, someone’s got an employer, they have to think about someone. You know, there’s always something that sort of gets in the way of honest, open, sort of brutal honesty and talk. And I think we’re able to cut through that just because of our situations.
Chad Sowash [00:10:52]:
And it’s Easy to be HR’s most dangerous podcast because nothing in HR is dangerous in the first place. So just ratcheting it up just a couple of levels and putting some snark in it, it, it makes us dangerous. So it makes it, it’s pretty simple to be dangerous in hr.
Joel Cheeseman [00:11:08]:
Yeah, we’re the, we’re the poodle in the dog kennel.
Matt Alder [00:11:11]:
Well, that’s a, that’s a really, that’s a really good point. Do you get, do you get any complaints?
Chad Sowash [00:11:16]:
Well, we, I think we’ve gotten one complaint thus far and our we. The advice to anybody who is complaining is don’t listen. I mean, that’s what it comes down to. It’s your choice to either plug in and listen to us or not. This isn’t Russia. We’re not, you know, doing state sponsored podcasts or anything like that.
Joel Cheeseman [00:11:36]:
Just don’t listen and we’re okay with criticism. Just, you know, bring it, you know, bring facts, Bring, you know, bring what you got. Like, don’t, you know, the social media grenades that, you know, they don’t want to come on the show or they don’t want to back up whatever it is. Like, I’ll give you an example. We had somebody with somebody make the claim that we only have advertisers because they feel threatened that we’re gonna like f bomb them to hell if they don’t give us money for the show. And that’s just simply ridiculous. We don’t threaten anybody to give us money for sponsoring the show. All of our sponsors love us. I mean, so to make a claim like that is either you better come on the show and defend your, your position, or on social media, you better come with some facts that backs up that, that statement, because that’s a really, you know, that’s a big claim to make if you don’t have any facts to back it up.
Chad Sowash [00:12:29]:
Yeah, and we’re going to come, I mean, and we’re going to come straight at you on the podcast to tell you how it is and ask for you to come on the show to, you know, again, voice your opinion so we can land based your ass there.
Matt Alder [00:12:43]:
Well, I don’t think, and I think that’s the great thing about podcasting is, you know, there’s, there’s no keyboard warriors here. Everyone, everyone is having to back up their opinion and talk about, just justify it and not hide behind, not hide behind a keyboard. So another, another question for you. So, so my podcast is about the future of recruiting.
Chad Sowash [00:13:05]:
What’s the future of recruiting from our standpoint? You know, we talk a lot about technology and that’s what we feel the future of recruiting is. It’s not total robots technology, so on and so forth, but especially now, as we talk about process and problems, there are many pieces of technology that could get rid of the mundane, bullshit, problematic tasks that we face today. And I feel like the, the, the switch of just having people powered recruiting will have more of a automatic, automated, enabled people recruiting where candidates don’t go into the black hole anymore. Right? That’s the problem. When you have only people doing this, when you have automation support humans, then we can get into more of a humanistic type of recruiting culture. But we haven’t been there for years. So I think from our standpoint, we talk about recruiting so much on the technology side because that’s where we see the future of it going. Well, it’s like 10 guy, right? And Jacob on Facebook was giving us so much because this, this 10 guy robot is an interviewing robot and it’s not human and blah, blah, blah. And it’s like, dude, look, you’ve got to realize these guys are pushing the next frontier of what we’re doing. Candidates are already having a experience as it is right now. They’re having biased experience right now. Whatever we can do to try to push that boundary to see if we can do better, that’s not, that’s not the problem. That’s the answer. It might not work, but guess what? Unless we try, we’ll never know. And, and those are the things that we like to push on our show.
Joel Cheeseman [00:14:51]:
I think that your point of everyone’s sort of confused with the noise out there really underscores what the future recruiter needs to look like. They have to have a really good, broad or basic understanding of the technology that’s going on and being developed and what’s coming down the pike, because if they don’t keep up, they’re going to be eliminated. The old days of like, hey, I’m a tool in the tool chest and I can live like that are, I think, going away. And you have to have a very broad tool, toolkit to know everything that’s going on and know what a chatbot is, know what, you know, AI is and know what these vendors are and know what, you know, messaging is and the different platforms for that and how to use it and what’s, you know, advertising. And now, now there’s podcasts, there’s going to be video down, you know, down the pike and how do we best use that stuff? And there’s Snapchat and there’s instagram and there’s TikTok and there’s like, you have to be really smart and keep up with it if you’re going to be successful. The ones that don’t are going to be left behind. I think that the, you know, the, the line between what’s marketing and recruiting is really blurring more and more each day and for the recruiters that aren’t marketers or think of themselves in that way are going to be left behind.
Chad Sowash [00:16:06]:
So back to your question. What do you feel the future of recruitment is? And I mean, you being, you know, more across the pond on the UK side of the house, it’s much different than over here in the US how do you feel that differs from kind of like our vantage point?
Matt Alder [00:16:22]:
I would say it’s very similar, actually. I think that from a big picture perspective, you know, every. We’re kind of pretty much aligned. There are, there are, you know, there are, there are lots of differences between recruiting in North America, recruiting in Europe and recruiting elsewhere around the world. But I think the, the overall direction is, is, is, is. Is very much the, the same. And I kind of really agree with what you just said. And I think the, I think the key to this is, is actually critical thinking because I think understanding, understanding what’s going on, being able to spot what’s a useful tool from what’s just, what’s just a load of hype. But at the same time, I think it’s having this, having this real sense of being open minded. And I think Tengai is a really interesting example of that because, you know, like you, I had Tengai on the. Because we were both, we were all in sort of Portugal and recorded it and kind of got similar feedback. And I think when you actually sort of sit down and analyze that the robot is only a small part of that story. There’s a whole sort of bigger story about trying to solve the problem of bias. Also, that is a very, very early stage product that’s, you know, there’s no uses data, there’s nothing but conjecture. And I think until something gets out in the. And you know, people actually come back and say, I hate this. I think, I think it’s just too early to make those very, very.
Joel Cheeseman [00:17:54]:
Were you, were you surprised at the divisiveness of the opinion and to quote your great statesman William Shakespeare, doth thou protest too much? Like, I think it’s, I think it’s very telling about a product when so many recruiters hate it.
Matt Alder [00:18:08]:
I don’t think I was surprised because I’ve seen that, I’ve seen that round almost every time there’s, there’s a, you know, there’s some kind of leap forward in recru, whether it was the Internet to start with or social media or then, you know, robots or whatever it is, there’s always this kind of massive emotional reaction. And I think that, I think where it just gets confusing is there are also a number of products that come out that have proved to be useless or before their time or not delivering, delivering the hype they promised and it just all gets kind of mixed up together. But I think that if you, if you take a step back and look at this and say, you know what, as it stands at the moment, no one will argue with you when you say, you know what, Talent acquisition is not as efficient as it could be. It has these elements of bias. The candidates are being given a really bad experience and there seems to be no sort of quick fix or easy way of doing that. Whatever people say then, you know that the industry is going to change and things are going to come along and move that forward. And it’s, I just think it’s important to kind of, of have an open mind and look at things and say, well, this could be it or it might not be, but let’s at least see what happens. On Chatbots. There was a huge kind of backlash certainly in the UK when Chatbots first appeared, that candidates wouldn’t like them and all this sort of stuff. And actually a lot of the Research that I’ve seen and a couple of the companies that I’ve spoken to are using them, have come back and said, well, actually they’ve, they’ve been successful for this and, and the candidates did like them. So, you know, so that’s kind of wrong to a certain extent. But at the same time, and this is where I think it’s all about critical thinking. That doesn’t mean every candidate is going to like every iteration of every chatbot. So there will be companies who use them appallingly and, and candidates hate them. So it comes back to that, you know, work out what your problems are and the way to solve them and use technology to help you. Don’t use technology just for the sake of it, or don’t use it just so you can say, hey, that technology was rubbish and I was right all along. And things, things should never change.
Joel Cheeseman [00:20:19]:
Remember when QR codes were going to rule the world?
Matt Alder [00:20:22]:
Oh, yeah, absolutely. There was a brilliant advert. Someone, a recruitment company in London put a QR code on a poster on the London Underground. And the whole point was you scan this QR code to go onto a website and this is like years before there is any Internet access or any kind of coverage on the London undergr. And it was just an astonishing example of using technology because someone told us it was cool without actually thinking about any of the user experience or anything that could sort of happen around that adoption.
Chad Sowash [00:21:01]:
For goodness sakes, people. I mean, it’s just like we have to think very keenly about adoption and how these individuals are going to adopt. I mean, scalability, all that other fun stuff. Just like podcasts. When Joel and I did our first podcast, like in 2008 or something like that, the only way you could listen is on your PC, on your desk. But anyway, I mean, the adoption rate was going to be very low and it was just, we were just having a fun time. It wasn’t until like 10 years later, you know, like in 2017, where, yeah, smartphones changed at all and it was all about the ability to adopt. Right. Those are the things that we need to look at from a technology standpoint. And that being said, looking at the future of recruiting, what is your favorite type of technology right now that you think will take us into that next segment of the future of recruiting?
Matt Alder [00:22:01]:
Oh, I was going to ask you that question. Oh, man. Okay, right. It’s a good question because I thought of the same question. My favorite type of technology, I think I like, I like technology that actually solves, you know, solves, solves a problem. So I think, I suppose there’s so two, two answers to this. I think some of the, some of the kind of new breed ATS solutions that are coming onto the market that have been actually built, you know, built with talent acquisition in mind, not built to just kind of automate a recruitment process, but, you know, built with candidates and built with recruiters in mind. I think there’s some great, some great stuff there, but sometimes I like the really kind of, the really sort of simple, simple things that make a difference. So, favorite thing that I’ve actually seen this year is a piece of software called Video My Job. And obviously to the disclaimer to say that other providers of the same software are available. And what I like about it is we all talk about video being so important when it comes to recruitment, marketing and content. And what that software does is it just makes it really easy for you to film a video. It puts subtitles up, it tells you where to put your head in the frame, and it does a few simple things to make, to make what you’re doing really good and really effective. So, you know, it’s not kind of a massive groundbreaking thing. It’s just something that really helps people to get good at doing video and to actually put content out there that looks as good as it can be. So I think it’s simple technology like that, that’s my sort of current favorite stuff in a world of complexity. What about you guys?
Chad Sowash [00:23:55]:
I’ve got mine.
Joel Cheeseman [00:23:59]:
You know what I think? To piggyback on video, My job. I think part of the reason, and this also goes back to the podcasting, is that those things are effective partly because they leverage a platform of distribution that is now, I guess, evolved enough to where those things work. Like Video. My job would not have worked 10 years ago the way that it does today. Right, because you didn’t have YouTube, you didn’t have social media, you didn’t have the channels to sort of easily distribute it, just like podcasting 10 years ago or yeah, mobile. So a lot of those little technologies are great because they leverage platforms that exist today that didn’t exist tomorrow. So what exactly is going to exist tomorrow, platform wise, that will sort of give birth to these new companies? I don’t know. Now to your question of the future of recruiting, the automation piece seems really disparate right now. You have things living alone or in silos. And I think the holy grail is to be able to pull all of these things together, you know, where you basically, you know, you post a job and it, you know, it programmatically distributes everywhere. Everyone comes in through, you know, pre screening process with a chat bot that’s automated, the scheduling goes through an automation process that goes right into Google Calendar or your Microsoft, you know, programs or 365. And then you know, the actual interviewing is when the, you know, the actual process starts. So you actually, I think recruiting will be not talking to someone until they actually come through the door because they’ve been scheduled on your calendar automatically and they’ve been pre screened and sourced and everything. And then that sort of face to face relationship is where recruiting and people who are good, good at that in recruiting that that will really excel. So I think right now all those systems are sort of separate. Someone will bring it together. And Chad and I sort of disagree on this sort of one platform to rule them all. But it’s pretty evident to me that people like Google or Companies like Google, LinkedIn, Microsoft, indeed ZipRecruit and others are trying to solve that sort of one process problem and we’ll see if they can figure it out. Number two, if that really is the holy grail or not. But I do believe that’s probably the future of where recruitment is going.
Chad Sowash [00:26:19]:
Yeah, my favorite right now though are the companies, the startups who are focused on being able to help hiring companies, staffing companies leverage that resume database that they’ve spent millions of dollars building in their applicant tracking system or their, their system of record that they’re just not using. It’s ridiculous that every single day companies recruiters are posting jobs out and they’re buying candidates that they already have in their database. So big shout out to you know, candidate ID and opening IO who was, they were on the death match stage in Portugal. They both do this in different ways. Candidate ID focuses on that nurturing piece and being able to nurture the individuals that you’ve already purchased that are in your applicant tracking system. And then opening IO is more on the matching scheme piece. So obviously you, you have a job, it’s open, the rec’s open, it goes into your system and it pulls those candidates forward before you go to pay more money. And that’s the thing is that from a talent acquisition standpoint, you know, we need to do a much better job on impacting, positively impacting business and that means a lot means bottom line and using our dollars much better. This is more of a practical way to actually dive in and be more productive, more process oriented and focused on what we’ve already bought. So that’s those are those are my favorite right now, all the video stuff. And that’s all cool, but I think being able to really leverage your data that you’ve already bought is the key.
Joel Cheeseman [00:28:02]:
And I think that’s, that’s challenging because you have, you know, you have Chad mentioned two companies that are successfully doing that, but we also have companies that did somewhat of the same thing and have, have clearly failed or are failing. So you have like Restless Bandit that just basically sold for pennies on the dollar, allegedly. You have crowded, which sort of imploded internally and didn’t get it done. But all those four companies are doing, trying to solve the same problem, but half of them are succeeding and the other half are going by the wayside. Which brings you to that whole confusion thing of like, I know we need to be doing this, but exactly who should be doing it. And I think that’s why you look at a lot of people relying on, you know, friends and colleagues for word of mouth and recommendations on who they use well.
Chad Sowash [00:28:47]:
And so if companies have startups coming in, they should already know how they want to use that technology. They should know the process. They should know what their, their objectives are for using said technology. That’s the biggest issue that we have right now. Companies are looking to startups. Many of these startups have never been in our industry before. And these individuals are not integrating. These startups are not integrating. They’re not focused on really the points of execution of how to make it work, because they don’t understand how it should work so well.
Joel Cheeseman [00:29:20]:
Don’t forget about pivots, right? Like, okay, the product I bought last month is the same company, but they’ve pivoted and now they’re a different product. So, like, my head is totally spinning around that.
Chad Sowash [00:29:30]:
Yeah. So are you seeing that in the UK as much with really more focus into the objectives they’ve started out with? Or are they just pivot machines like we’re seeing over here in the US.
Matt Alder [00:29:43]:
It’S very, it’s very similar. It’s kind of very similar across, across Europe, really. Lots of, lots of startups looking to solve, you know, sometimes just one problem which could be a niche problem. They, they don’t get that they might pick up a few clients, they don’t get the traction they need. They then start to solve another problem and, you know, things, things just get, get. Things just get very confusing basically. And I think that there’s so much, I think one of the problems is there’s so much money coming into the sector. You know, there are so many you know, investors sort of looking at this and thinking, well, recruitment’s broken and if we can back the people who are going to fix it, then we’re going to make a lot of money. So lots of money coming into the sector, lots of, lots of it is being spent on. On marketing and branding and advertising, which kind of ups the, Ups the amount of noise and kind of reduces the overall traction because, you know, there are lots of sort of people competing to solve the same problem. And it makes for. It makes for quite a confusing landscape. But things are changing and it’s. It’s really important that people, you know, going back to that same thing, just understand what are the problems they need to solve and, you know, how best. How best to solve them.
Chad Sowash [00:31:06]:
Excellent. So we’re, I think we’re at a good spot right now where we can probably, like, close out and then we can talk about, you know, possibly doing this again sometime, because we just talked about a very small sliver of, Of a lot of what’s going on out there. So does that sound good to you guys?
Joel Cheeseman [00:31:24]:
That sounds, for me. I think we should both say, like, hey, you know, for those listening on Matt’s show, you can find out more about us@chadcheese.com and for anyone listening on our show, Matt, where can they find out more about you?
Matt Alder [00:31:36]:
You can go to rfpodcast.com or just search for recruiting future in any podcasting app or on Spotify or wherever, wherever you access your podcasts.
Chad Sowash [00:31:52]:
And you’ll be able to see us on stage at REC Fest in London, right? You’re gonna be on the R100 stage in London. That’s July 11th. And we’re going to be. We’re going to be closing out this show.
Joel Cheeseman [00:32:06]:
Can we come crack. Can we come crash your presentation?
Matt Alder [00:32:09]:
Yeah, you can kind of a panel debate about automation and recruitment. Oh, yeah, absolutely. And my, My session is before the bars open, so. And your session is kind of right at the end of the day, so, you know, the audience reaction might be. Be. Might be. Might be slightly different. Well, it should, it should be an interesting. It should be an interesting event. Definitely.
Chad Sowash [00:32:34]:
What we should do is we should do that panel before the bars open and then do it the exact same panel on the main stage after. And everybody has to be drunk when we’re doing that. So I mean, that would be. I think that’s a good, you know, balance between the two.
Matt Alder [00:32:51]:
I think that’s a great idea. I think that’s a great idea. And, you know, knowing. Knowing most of the people on my panel. I think they’d be, they’d be, they’d be well up for that.
Chad Sowash [00:32:58]:
Excellent, guys.
Joel Cheeseman [00:32:59]:
Thanks, Matt.
Matt Alder [00:33:01]:
Fantastic. So. Well, thank you for being on my show and thank you very much for inviting me on your show.
Chad Sowash [00:33:05]:
Take care.
Joel Cheeseman [00:33:06]:
Cheerio.
Matt Alder [00:33:07]:
Bye. Bye. My thanks to Chad and Joel. You can subscribe to the Recruiting Future podcast in Apple Podcasts or via your podcasting app of choice. The show also has its own dedicated app, which you can find by searching for Recruiting Future in your App Store. If you’re a Spotify user, you can also find the show there. You can find all the past episodes@www.rfpodcast.com on that site, you can subscribe to the mailing list and find out more about working with me. Thanks very much for listening. I’ll be back next week and I hope you’ll join me.
