I’ve recently returned from a long trip to Las Vegas, where I attended both the UNLEASH and Transform conferences. Unsurprisingly, AI dominated every session and every vendor booth at both events. The promise is huge, but the reality on the ground is a lot more complicated. Some teams are seeing genuine value from new tools. Others are finding that technology is creating as many problems as it solves. For many people, the sheer volume of options is making it harder, not easier, to know what to invest in.
So what is actually happening with AI in talent acquisition right now?
My guest interview from UNLEASH is Meredith Johnson, Chief Product Officer at Greenhouse and my guest interview from Transform is Nicki Paterson, Chief Growth Officer at Solutions Driven. They share their honest perspectives on AI adoption, the human skills that matter more than ever, and what the future might look like.
In the interview, we discuss:
• AI hype versus the current reality on the ground
• The balance between humans and machines
• Trust, control, and transparency
• The shift from quantity and speed to quality and value in hiring
• Aligning HR and TA with critical business objectives
• The confusing vendor landscape
• What does the future look like?
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00:00
Matt Alder
I’ve just got back from attending the Unleash and Transform conferences, which were held back to back in Las Vegas. AI dominated every conversation, every booth and every keynote. But behind all the hype, what are people really saying about its current impact on talent acquisition? Keep listening to find out.
00:24
Matt Alder
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01:28
Matt Alder
Hi there.
01:29
Matt Alder
Welcome to episode 780 of Recruiting Future with me, Matt Alder. I’ve recently returned from a long trip to Las Vegas, where I attended both the Unleash and Transform conferences. Unsurprisingly, AI dominated every session and every render booth at both events. The promise is huge, but the reality on the ground is a lot more complicated. Some teams are seeing genuine value from these new AI tools. Others are finding that technology is creating as many problems as it solves. For many people, the sheer volume of options is making it harder, not easier, to know what to invest in. So what’s actually happening with AI in Talent acquisition right now? My guest interview from Unleash is with Meredith Johnson, Chief Product Officer at Greenhouse. And my guest interview from Transform is Nicki Paterson, Chief Growth Officer at Solutions Driven.
02:28
Matt Alder
They share their honest perspectives on AI adoption, the human skills that matter more than ever, and what the future just might look like.
02:38
Matt Alder
Hi, Nicki and welcome to the podcast.
02:40
Nicki Paterson
Hi Matt, how are you?
02:41
Matt Alder
I’m very good.
02:41
Matt Alder
I’m very good. I’m slightly Vegas’d. out. I think this is day 10. Just introduce yourself and tell everyone what you do.
02:46
Nicki Paterson
So I am Nicki Paterson, Chief Growth Officer at Solutions Driven, which is a polite way of saying kind of head of sales, head of customer. I’m responsible for, I guess, the land and expansion across the company. 160 Companies, we recruit in 60 countries and we do a combination of SD exec, kind of director through C suite recruitment. We do SD Search, which is kind of your director, down to senior individual contributor. And then we do SD Embedded, which is an agile RPO offering as well.
03:15
Matt Alder
Awesome.
03:16
Matt Alder
So we’re at Transform and you were actually hosting a roundtable during breakfast this morning. What was the topic? Tell us about it.
03:24
Nicki Paterson
So the topic was avoiding hiring insanity in 2026. I mean, for us, hiring just never has been more important, more critical. But also. No, it’s never been as chaotic, I suppose either. Right. I mean, I think the idea was to have a very open conversation around the risks that people are seeing. Are outcomes improving? Are people hiring better leadership? Is there still the same turnover of leadership? And ultimately, with all of the AI tools that are now available, is hiring improving or is it getting worse?
04:00
Matt Alder
Well, I think that’s the ultimate question because I think we just looking around at all of the tech solutions that.
04:06
Matt Alder
Are kind of here.
04:09
Matt Alder
The two questions for me were one, how do they fit together?
04:12
Matt Alder
What do you actually buy?
04:13
Matt Alder
And also there isn’t very much on how they’re working. I’m not seeing big bold claims about what they’re actually doing. So what were the kind of conclusions from the roundtable? What were people saying about the insanity that we’re now in?
04:28
Nicki Paterson
I think first of all, what you just said around all the tools and technology, it’s really cool to see the level of innovation and investment and entrepreneurial growth mindset in this room today at the Expo, But I just can’t help but think, how do people decide what is the best tech stack for them? Is there a perfect tech stack? And it’s changing every day as well. So how do you keep up with that pace of change? And it just seems a very costly experiment right now in many ways. And I think maybe the smaller growth companies, SMEs can maybe adopt and test these tools, but if you’re going to be doing this at enterprise level, you need to get it right. And I think I’m seeing a lot of caution when it comes to recruitment right now.
05:15
Nicki Paterson
I certainly think there’s going to be a lot of caution when it comes to recruitment, tech spend as well. But the roundtable really was looking at, you know, the last five years, right? There’s been a lot of change. We’ve went from people hiring really very locally at the sites, obviously all working together in a place of work too, and basically trying to hire the best person at a local level to almost the ability to hire the best person anywhere. And I think that has really changed the way in which people can attract talent. But it’s also give candidates a lot more options as well.
05:52
Nicki Paterson
And you know, I would say on the whole, over the last couple of years we at Solutions Driven have noticed maybe a reduction in hiring, reduction in TA teams are leaning out, but almost when hiring goes ahead, it’s really critical. And there’s now a great kind of debate between caution and risk and not wanting to get the hire wrong. And I think our 12 to 18 month guarantee have put a lot of people’s mind at ease. And I think when there is less hiring going on, it gives you that opportunity to spend more time together. Right. Get the alignment right, pick up the right roles and then ultimately deliver that outcome. And I think what I was hearing from the group today, So I had CPOs, CHROs, heads of talent, heads of L and D and a couple of startups at the roundtable.
06:44
Nicki Paterson
It was a really good mix. But they all felt that where it falls short often is the alignment pre search and not enough work is done there. Still a lot of companies are losing someone and replacing someone and using the job spec from two years ago and the process they used five years ago.
07:01
Matt Alder
It’s really interesting. I was talking to a CPO yesterday in the tech sector and he was talking about how they’ve gone from quantity and speed to quality and value and very much kind of echoing what you were saying. Well, I mean what were people saying about technology and AI? Is it helping? Are they as confused about it as everyone else? What was the, what was the kind of. How would you summarize the mood at the table?
07:25
Nicki Paterson
What I liked about the table is the global head of talent that was there, you know, talked about how that’s really helped his team source. It’s really helped his team on the kind of a data analytics benchmarking market insights upfront. And we’re certainly seeing that as solution driven. If we can provide hiring managers with data on day one, you become that consultative partner a lot quicker. So I would say from a sourcing point of view, yeah, it’s great. You’re able to pull up loads of profiles really quickly. But ultimately you still need that human to go in and add the right context and drive things forward. A real debate at the moment. I think people on both sides of the fence that it’s causing more speed, more volume and in many cases it’s actually hurting the brand. Right.
08:17
Nicki Paterson
Because if 200 people apply, 200 people need to be responded to. Do you have the capability to do that? On the flip side, there’s a lot of that kind of appliance scale. And that’s, you know, you’re then spending a lot of time filtering out not right candidates as well. So I think there was certainly different levels of AI adoption at the table. And I think real 50 on whether it’s been a big positive or just more noise.
08:47
Matt Alder
It’s an interesting one because it causes problems, it can then solve the problems it causes. It solves problems that have never been able to be solved before and probably creates problems we’ve never seen before. So it is a really nuanced, complicated situation. Let’s just talk a little bit about Transform, because you’ve been here sort of fairly regularly, this does seem like the biggest one that they’ve had. What is it about this event that.
09:11
Matt Alder
You really like that keeps you coming back?
09:14
Nicki Paterson
I get my energy through conversation and relationships I always have. And having played pro sports for a long time, teamwork for me is everything, right. And being a remote first organization, you know, I get my joy from going and meeting customers and every so often pulling the team together. So, you know, I don’t think you can do this for too long, but for two or three days. I love the energy you get from Transform, the relationships you build, the introductions to your and the kind of conversations that you. You never thought you might have, but also the opportunity to build on conversations of the past. I kind of try and plot my agenda accordingly to where I’m seeing our customers try and grow, whether it be leadership, whether it be AI, whether it be teamwork. And again, I’ve had some super conversations this week.
10:12
Nicki Paterson
I’ve had some great talks. The gentleman from the Lakers, I enjoyed that around because again, I’ve still got that link between high performance and sports and business, the mentorship, the resilience, all of that.
10:26
Matt Alder
Right.
10:26
Nicki Paterson
I’m really keen on that and that emphasized that for me. And you know, got to hear Lance Armstrong today, for example. And also just keep your kind of nose to the ground and what tools are up and coming.
10:36
Matt Alder
As a kind of last question, let’s sort of focus on the rest of.
10:39
Matt Alder
The year and what do you think.
10:41
Matt Alder
We’re going to see? What’s going to happen over the next 12 months or so? If we’re kind of sitting here next year, I think it’s in a slightly different location next year. But if we’re sitting here having the same conversation this time next year, what will have happened? What will we be talking about?
10:54
Nicki Paterson
I actually think right now there’s a lot of innovation, there’s a lot of learning, there’s a lot of optimism and some fear. Right. And I think what’s going to happen over the next six to 12 months is you’re going to start to see winners and losers. So you’re going to see companies that have pumped investment and, okay, we’ve not quite got this right. Can we keep getting that level of investment? You’re going to see some M and A activity in some of these really good companies swallowed up. So you’re going to see good, innovative companies get great and more innovative. And I think, you know, I think the pace of this innovation right now, I don’t think it can quite stay at that. I think right now, a company level.
11:40
Nicki Paterson
So many companies I’m here are trying to reinvigorate their brand and evp really important. But my honest opinion is you’re not in control of your EVP anymore. You control the behaviors that your hiring team portray and the experience that you give customers and candidates. And I think, again, that’s going to show winners and losers.
12:04
Matt Alder
Nicky, thank you very much for talking to me.
12:06
Nicki Paterson
Thank you very much. Pleasure.
12:10
Matt Alder
Hi, Meredith, and welcome back to the podcast.
12:12
Meredith Johnson
Thank you. I’m glad to be here. It’s good to see you, as always.
12:14
Matt Alder
Absolutely.
12:15
Matt Alder
Well, always a pleasure to talk to.
12:16
Matt Alder
You and brilliant to be recording face to face.
12:18
Meredith Johnson
Yes. I love this.
12:19
Matt Alder
We’re unleashed.
12:20
Matt Alder
It’s day one. There’s lots of things going on as ever, huge amounts of talk about AI and what it means for hr, what it means for talent acquisition. One of the things that really interests me is the conversation about what’s human,.
12:35
Matt Alder
What’s AI, where does that split sit?
12:38
Matt Alder
Because I think it is a much more nuanced conversation now than perhaps we’ve had in the past. What’s your take on it?
12:44
Meredith Johnson
Yeah, well, first off, thanks for letting me talk about this because I think it’s really important. You know, were here a year ago talking about AI and I think it was really focused on automation of workflow and efficiency and saving time and saving cost, which is great. There’s some great use cases for, you know, generative and summative AI. But. And there were concerns there, too. You know, I think more about is it going to replace my job? How are we going to think about cost containment now? I think we’re actually having more exciting, important conversations about what can AI actually support and unlock in terms of thinking, partnership, decision, support, and really uplifting the overall effectiveness of the work that we do. But it brings in the question you just asked, which is, okay, well, what is AI doing? What is the human doing?
13:26
Meredith Johnson
And can we have a debate about what’s ethical, what’s fair, what’s appropriate and still have space for experimentation? Right. So I think at least at Greenhouse, when we’re thinking about solutions, we’ve been trying to be really purposeful about the application of AI and keeping the human in control. Right. Having visibility, having control, having transparency, because we predicate our product on trust for the people that are using it, and trust and fairness in hiring. So it’s really important. And I think, you know, when we look at some of the solutions we’ve rolled out, they all have a very deliberate human element where a recruiter has to do a calibration before AI supports a match or a strength score, for example. Right. If we’re talking about ID verification to reduce fraud, a human has to take an action.
14:14
Meredith Johnson
It’s not just happening in an automated fashion and it’s not dispositioning candidates. Right. It’s not making decision. Right. If you are, you know, thinking about AI screening and interviewing, how are you going to use that technology but not have it make all the decision and disposition on your behalf? Right. These are the problems that we’re. The kind of questions we’re asking ourselves as we’re thinking about solving the problems that recruiters and TAA teams are facing right now, which is a ton of applications and a lot of fraud.
14:40
Matt Alder
What kind of draws that boundary?
14:41
Matt Alder
Is it, Is it regulation?
14:42
Matt Alder
Is it ethics?
14:43
Meredith Johnson
Great question. And actually, yeah, in my session this morning, I said, you know, we’re taking a very ethical, you know, approach, not just because of regulations. I mean, sure, there’s regulations, they are changing. We’re watching what’s going to happen with this lawsuit, what’s going to happen with this law, what’s going to happen in this country. Right. A geography, you know, is going to play an important role here too. And, you know, you have to abide by regulations and you want to be certified, you know, and you want to be seen as ethical. But to me, that’s actually not what’s driving our behavior. We want to have a very ethical, standardized, high trust, fair, transparent approach to using AI because it’s what’s right. And it’s because we want to bring trust to the process. Right.
15:25
Meredith Johnson
We want recruiters and talent teams to trust the information that they have, the additional signal that we can bring to them with AI tools, signal that is impossible to get without the support of AI. And we can talk a little bit about that. So for us, it’s really about Providing trust, creating that trust layer and doing it because it’s right and it’s what actually helps make better decisions and helps support the human. We’re not doing it just because there’s rules and regulations. Again, we have to abide by them. But this really is about making the best possible solution in a way that works for the way hiring work is happening today.
15:57
Matt Alder
And I want to pick up on something, you said that because this is.
16:01
Matt Alder
Such an interesting area, because it’s kind of so problematic for people, I think because it is such a disruption and such a huge change. There are people who have done their job a certain way for a really long time now wondering what the future is. And I think that there is a natural tendency for people to kind of hang on to things because they think.
16:20
Matt Alder
That’s where their expertise is. But actually AI could do that better.
16:24
Matt Alder
As you said, it could get more signal.
16:26
Matt Alder
So talk us through that a little.
16:28
Matt Alder
Bit in terms of what is it that AI can do better than humans can? Obviously we’ve got human judgment and the things that you talked about, but flip that round and give us the other,.
16:37
Matt Alder
The other side of the story.
16:38
Meredith Johnson
It’s a great question and it’s because we’re thinking like, how is work changing? Right? That’s one of the things we have to really think about. It’s really deeply understanding the work today and what it’s going to look like in the future. I think we don’t joke, we say AI is not going to take your job, but someone who knows it will. That’s what I keeping in my mind. I’m not so stressed about it replacing humans and I am worried that people use it irresponsibly and for decisioning when they shouldn’t. But it really is about all of us embracing what is the technology and what can it do. So back to your question of what can it do.
17:13
Meredith Johnson
We know AI already is really great at content generation, content summarization, but when you think about in people practices and certainly in recruiting, what can it do that’s better than a human or faster than a human that can support the work that we’re doing? Right. And that’s why we’re using it. For example, giving indication of fraud. Right. Doing wide scale spam identification. Right. You can’t do that as a human. Right. A human is not. We’re not designed to look for risk and fraud at scam scale. Most hiring solutions aren’t actually built for that either. They’re built for really good efficiency, for workflow and structured process but they’re not designed for reducing fraud or identifying spam and things like that.
17:55
Meredith Johnson
And so when you can lean into responsible use of AI to bring in, you know, look at data within your environment, pull in other data assets and be able to do these kind of larger scale. They’re almost like mini research projects. Projects. Right. That, that’s where AI can really sizzle. Right. A person can’t do that. And we hear so much from recruiters. They are stressed out today looking for what’s real and what’s. Not, looking for pink flags. Right. You know, one of my customers was like, it’s not even red obvious things like, okay, that’s a bot, you know, but it’s like something might have been a little bit off. Right. And so I think AI can help with that, you know, doing some of those processes at scale. And I think AI is a great place to get some thinking partnership, right.
18:34
Meredith Johnson
Where you can interact with agents and you can experiment faster and you can do rapid prototyping and you can think about reimagining your business processes. You know, I think there’s lots of applications and I think we’re just getting started.
18:47
Matt Alder
Yeah, absolutely. And you kind of really touched on that just how much work is going to change. And I know that you were talking on our panel earlier around that topic, but also around how HR and talent acquisition kind of really need to understand the business in order to kind of embrace. Embrace that and move forward with it.
19:03
Matt Alder
Talk us through that a little bit.
19:04
Meredith Johnson
Yeah, for sure. And I’m going to answer that question two ways because I think there is something HR and talent teams are being called to in this moment, which is to understand the business better, to understand how work is actually happening and how work is going to happen in the future. Right. That’s, that’s the exciting and also difficult thing. And that’s important. The flip side of that coin is too, let’s not put it all on people teams. We need to engage the business differently as well. Right. We need business leaders to have agency in the process of finding talent, in the process of onboarding talent, in the process of making sure that we’re getting a return on that talent that we bring in and that we’re actually grading hiring managers for how effective they are in that process.
19:44
Meredith Johnson
So I want to just give a little like we love our people teams and our talent people, but it really sizzles when you’re in a flow with the whole organization and it’s not all on record recruiting to do something quickly. At a low cost. Right. Those are vanity metrics that are long gone, I think. I mean, they’re still there, but I think they should be long gone. We need to be focusing on helping our people, teams understand the business and work with the business to really understand and articulate what is the outcome we’re trying to achieve and how will we know if your business partner can’t answer that? You got to keep being an awesome people team leader and a great talent person to get that out of them. Because without that, you don’t have a mapping for the talent you’re bringing in.
20:22
Matt Alder
Final question, what’s your impression of everything that’s kind of going on here? You know, I know you’ve probably not been here for very long, but the content, the people exhibiting, what’s the vibe? What are you picking up?
20:32
Meredith Johnson
Well, I have a very like, enthusiastic, positive personality. So my first impression is it’s really fun. There’s a lot of positive noise and energy. It’s a whole bunch of people all in a room who care about talent, people, operations. And that’s really exciting. Right? You got a lot of like minded but very unique companies and people here in a room trying to just geek out with one another about what’s going on today and what might it look like in the future. So first off, great energy. I also think there’s a lot to consume. And so for the buyer, and this is a lot for us, you know, and partners and different vendors, but for the buyer, I think it’s still really confusing. I think a lot of the messages look the same.
21:11
Meredith Johnson
I think a lot of the tagline on the booths, as I look around look the same and everybody has the word AI on their billboard. So I think the challenge for us as leaders, all of us in this space and serving this market, is just being really clear about what are you doing, why are you doing it and what outcomes can people expect using your solution or working with you as a vendor? I think that’s really important because I think it’s tough out there. The work that our customers are doing is challenging. I think the choices in technology and vendors and partners to work with is only growing. And so those are my two impressions right now. Great energy, lots of awesome people. But it can easily get confusing if you’re not really clear about why you’re here and why it matters.
21:52
Matt Alder
Meredith, thank you very much for talking to me.
21:54
Meredith Johnson
Yeah, it’s great. I hope to see you again soon.
21:57
Matt Alder
My thanks to Meredith and to Nicki. You can follow this podcast on Apple podcasts on Spotify or wherever you listen to your podcasts. You can search all the past episodes at recruitingfuture.com on that site. You can also subscribe to our weekly newsletter, Recruiting Future Feast, and get the inside track on everything that’s coming up on the show. Thanks very much for listening. I’ll be back next time and I hope you’ll join me.
