Recruiting Future is a podcast that helps Talent Acquisition teams drive measurable impact by developing their strategic capability in Foresight, Influence, Talent, and Technology.
This episode is about Talent and Technology.
The recruitment technology landscape is experiencing a perfect storm. Perfect match candidates aren’t completing applications due to frustrating processes. At the same time, recruiters are being overwhelmed by candidates using AI tools to generate thousands of low-quality submissions. Traditional matching algorithms provide limited transparency into the decision-making process, thereby creating legal and compliance risks. Meanwhile, cost-per-application models continue to charge for clicks rather than actual conversions, leaving employers paying for candidates who never complete the process.
How can TA teams navigate this impossible environment while improving outcomes for everyone involved?
My guests this week are Simon Van Hijfte, Marketing Manager at Adecco Belgium, and Ritu Mohanka, CEO at VONQ. Simon shares how Adecco is transforming their recruitment process with AI agents and the impressive results they’re achieving – from improved candidate satisfaction to enhanced recruiter efficiency. We also all discuss the shift from opaque matching systems to transparent point-based scoring, how AI agents are solving the broken candidate experience, and why this people-first approach is delivering better business outcomes across the board.
• Why is the candidate experience broken?
• The impact of candidates using AI
• Implementing a people-first approach supported by AI
• Recruter Enablement vi AI Agents
• What do the candidates think?
• Moving from matching to scoring and explainable decision making
• Spotting transferable skills
• Vonq’s innovative CPA+ model
• What results has Adecco been getting?
• What does the future of recruiting look like?
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00:00
Matt Alder
Recruiting is facing an impossible conundrum. Perfect candidates are abandoning applications due to cumbersome processes, while recruiters are being swamped by AI generated submissions. It’s a perfect storm that risks breaking the entire hiring ecosystem. So how can AI agents fix this? Just keep listening to find out. Support for this podcast comes from VONQ. VONQ is transforming recruitment advertising with a results driven platform that helps employers attract, vet and shortlist top quality candidates efficiently trusted by global leaders like Danone, Bayer, Randstadt and PwC. VONQ combines AI powered technology, deep ATS integrations and recruitment expertise to streamline hiring workflows, enhance employer branding and deliver measurable outcomes. With VONQ, you can streamline your recruitment process, improve ROI and build diverse high performing teams. Hire Smarter, faster. Hi there. Welcome to episode 711 of Recruiting Future with me, Matt Alder.
01:33
Matt Alder
Recruiting Future is a podcast that helps talent acquisition teams drive measurable impact by developing their strategic capability in foresight, influence, talent and technology. This episode is about talent and technology. The recruiting technology landscape is experiencing a perfect storm. Perfect match candidates aren’t completing Applications due to frustrating processes. At the same time, recruiters are being overwhelmed by candidates using AI tools to generate thousands of low quality submissions. Traditional matching algorithms provide limited transparency in the decision making process, thereby creating legal and compliance risks. Meanwhile, cost per application models continue to charge for clicks rather than actual conversions, leaving employers paying for candidates who never complete the process. So how can TA teams navigate this impossible environment while improving outcomes for everyone involved? My guests this week are Simon Van Hijfte, Marketing Manager at Adecco Belgium, and Ritu Mohanka, CEO at VONQ.
02:46
Matt Alder
Simon shares how Adecco is transforming their recruiting process with AI agents and the impressive results they’re achieving, from improved candidate satisfaction to enhanced recruiter efficiency.
02:58
Matt Alder
We also discuss the shift from opaque matching systems to transparent point based scoring, how AI agents are solving the broken candidate experience, and why this people first approach is delivering better business outcomes across the board. Hi Ritu. Hi Simon. Welcome to the podcast. It’s an absolute pleasure to have both of you on the show. To start with, could you introduce yourself and tell us what you do?
03:26
Matt Alder
Ritu, you can go first.
03:27
Ritu Mohanka
Thank you for having me, Matt. And I’m delighted to be joined by Simon. In terms of who I am, I come from a background deeply rooted in hr technology and people strategy. My journey began with a academic focus entirely on business and marketing. But my passion for helping organizations attract and retain the very best talent led me to this world of recruitment technology. Over the years I’ve had privilege of working for some of the most incredible organizations, building go to market strategies, driving growth and partnering with global enterprises to solve their talent challenges. And this experience has ultimately led me to my current role at Bonk, where I’m excited to drive innovation in the recruitment space. And I actually complete my first year anniversary next week at VONQ. And beyond work, my two boys are my greatest source of inspiration and perspective.
04:25
Ritu Mohanka
They remind me daily of the importance of resilience, curiosity and just finding joy in the little things and keeping me grounded and humble no matter how busy life gets.
04:37
Matt Alder
No, absolutely. And congratulations on the forthcoming anniversary. Simon, what about you?
04:43
Simon Van Hijfte
Hi everybody, I’m Simon. I’m marketing manager for Adecco Belgium. I’ve been in the HR industry for over 10 years now. Started as a company, consulted in 2015 with one of Adecco’s competitors, then joined Adecco in 2020, was responsible for implementing planning software. So I had operational role in temporary staffing, then it now in marketing, combining those two, attracting candidates using technology, which is a great fund, which I’ve been doing now for almost four years.
05:14
Matt Alder
Fantastic. And picking up on candidates because our sort of big topic for the conversation is the candidate experience and obviously it’s kind of a very sort of dynamic time at the moment with lots of things going on. So Ritu, why would you describe the candidate experience as broken?
05:33
Ritu Mohanka
Yes, Matt, I say it’s definitely broken. Let’s be honest, the experience is actually quite brutal. Picture this, you found a job that actually really excites you. You click apply, you’re full of hope, and then you hit a wall of hope. Form fields, you’re duplicating your resume, you’re updating it or uploading it, then retyping it all over again and then come the 10 plus screening questions and after all that effort, nothing. No response, no feedback, just complete silence. And here’s the real kicker, Matt. About 90% of candidates never even complete this process anymore and that’s a massive drop off. And also it’s not just about candidate experience issue. It’s a business problem. We’re wasting time, we’re wasting money and we’re wasting great talent because the system is frankly outdated. And at VONQ we’ve seen this firsthand.
06:29
Ritu Mohanka
We’ve got this incredible media team using programmatic technology and AI to drive traffic to the job ads. But we often find that those candidates, qualified or interested, just didn’t convert. And why? Because the application process crushed their enthusiasm. So we’ve really decided to flip the script. What if we made the candidate experience and the candidate journey more humane? What if we simplified the application, gave real time feedback to the candidates and this is the big one, put an end to this whole ghosting process. And that’s where our agent tech AI comes in. It actually interacts with the candidates like a guide, like a concierge answering their questions, giving them feedback, sometimes even doing that first round of interview. And it’s not automation for the sake of automation, it’s intelligent support. And when we focused on helping the candidate first, we discovered something really surprising.
07:27
Ritu Mohanka
It wasn’t just good for them. As I said earlier, it improved recruiter efficiency, time to hire, and even ROI for our customers.
07:35
Matt Alder
No, I think that makes a lot of sense. And Simon, what’s your sort of view on the candidate experience from Adecco perspective?
07:41
Simon Van Hijfte
Well, what we see over the past five or 10 years, more and more of our candidates started using smartphones, of course, to apply for jobs. Not a lot of job boards, job sites are equipped for that. So having a simplification of just that application flow really helps them, especially the retyping. That’s something that we see a lot in our candidates experience. Evaluations that they really don’t like giving too much information at the start. Also from a privacy perspective, only give the information that’s really needed. But we should also not forget we have a lot of candidates that might not speak the language of our recruiters or the language that our website is in. And with the AI agents speak a lot more languages. And for many of our jobs, we don’t need people to speak Dutch or English or French. Any language will do.
08:29
Simon Van Hijfte
But of course, if they can’t get their message across to our recruiters and our recruiters can’t get the message back to our candidates, that’s a real problem. So were losing out on a lot of great candidates. And with AI, we can really push those candidates forward and get them to work, which is of course our main goal as a temporary staffing firm.
08:48
Matt Alder
No, absolutely. Kind of like business imperative, basically. I’m going to come back to agents and AI a bit later in the conversation because I think there’s some really interesting things to dig into there. Before we do though, I just want to talk about the business model behind this because cost per application was kind of much hyped as something that was going to Potentially help solve this problem. Ritu, why is that model failing and what perhaps is the alternative?
09:18
Ritu Mohanka
Sadly, it is failing. Traditional cost per application models or CPA were meant to fix things, but they kind of missed the mark. They still mostly focused on driving clicks, not completed applications. And as we all know, clicks don’t equal candidates. So here’s what happens when a candidate sees a job clicks apply and halfway through that clunky process we talked about earlier, they give up. It’s too long, too repetitive, or they’re just not sure what’s next. And the result? Publishers don’t get paid because the apply wasn’t completed. And employees are left with a few firsthand finished, unusable applications. Nobody wins. Some networks even introduced cost per started apply models which led, let’s be honest, is a bit ridiculous. You’re basically paying for someone to dip their toe in and walk away. And from the employer side it creates a real budget headache. Costs become unpredictable.
10:18
Ritu Mohanka
They don’t know how many people will complete the apply and what the quality will be and or what they’ll actually end up even paying for that hire. So here’s the alternative. This is where CPA really flips the script. Instead of charging for clicks or even started applications, we only charge for completed high quality applications. And the magic behind it. It’s the AI agent that wraps around the entire candidate experience. So again, it’s not just for automation, for the sake of automation, it’s an actual assistant that helps candidate navigate the whole process. It answers questions in real time, guides them through tricky next steps, and even conducts a structured role specific interview within minutes of applying. So instead of recruiters getting these half filled forms or ghost candidates, they actually receive a candidate dossier.
11:14
Ritu Mohanka
And this includes the answers to some of the screening questions, an interview script, if the transcript, if it actually happens in the language Simon has alluded to, whichever language the candidate speaks, and a scorecard, everything they need to assess and move quickly.
11:30
Matt Alder
And Simon, what was your experience with CPA and how is this kind of model sort of shifting things for you?
11:37
Simon Van Hijfte
Yeah, with CPA and CPC or even the CPA starts that some job boards love to use. You’re throwing money into a wishing well and hope to get some good candidates in the end. It’s a real problem for us because we don’t know what we will have at the end. We don’t know the amount of candidates, we don’t know amount of budget we will spend. And of course we can make the backwards calculation ourselves. If we need 10 candidates to start, we will need about 20 good candidates and work backwards. But the further you go back, the more vague that calculation becomes. And if we can just say we need 20 good pre screened candidates that meet the basic criteria, it helps our job a lot. Because also of course, just when you pay per application.
12:22
Simon Van Hijfte
We’ve talked in the start about staffing agencies ghosting candidates. The opposite is of course also true. Somebody applies, you try to call them five, six, seven times. They never answer their phone, they don’t answer emails. That’s something that we really see in Belgium. People just applying for jobs to have a little proof that they could show the employment office say, hey look, I applied for a job. But of course those candidates are of very low value to us. So getting a pre screened candidate and the volumes that we need is of great value to Adecco and as was other staffing agencies as well.
12:53
Matt Alder
And walk us through the candidates journey here. How does CPA Plus work?
12:59
Ritu Mohanka
Absolutely, Matt. So imagine you’re a candidate, you find a job you like, you click Apply. Now, instead of landing on this long boring form, you’re greeted by a friendly AI agent. It’s a helpful buddy almost that helps you walk through the essentials. What’s your name, your email and your phone number and experience what you’re looking for. If you miss something, it flags it. If you’re unsure about anything like salary range or benefits, you just ask. It’s conversational, it’s immediate and as Simon says, it works 24 7. Then once that basics are in, the magic kicks in. Our AI launches a structured six minute screening interview completely tailored to that specific role. It captures your answers, it scores them, it packages everything in the beautiful structured profile from start to finish. It takes under 20 minutes.
13:51
Ritu Mohanka
Super efficient for the candidate and a dream for the recruiters. And if you don’t mind, Matt, I’d love to walk you through a dossier and how it looks and what the recruit experience is when they receive this actual dossier.
14:02
Matt Alder
Yeah, absolutely. So for people who are just listening to this, I’ve just brought up onto the screen one of these dossiers looks a little bit like a CV. So talk us through it.
14:14
Ritu Mohanka
Yes, absolutely Matt. So first of all, you’ll see in the right top there’s a contact info. Imagine having hundreds of CVs all in this exact same format. That alone is useful for a recruiter. We show the relative ranking. In this case it’s 167 out of the 573 pool. So essentially not a strong candidate. Pending review means that the applicant is missing a key requirement for this particular job. And the 55 points is below the threshold that our systems set for this specific job. Some jobs will of course have a higher point threshold depending upon how rare that score skill that they are looking for as an employer or a staffing agency. And there’s a summary of the candidate at the top and a summary of the screening call and there are points and explanation for key areas of the application.
15:04
Ritu Mohanka
And there’s even a transcript, as I said earlier, of the actual interview that the AI agent went through with the candidate.
15:12
Matt Alder
Simon, what’s this kind of like, how’s this from your perspective? How’s it kind of working for you? What are you seeing as the advantages?
15:19
Simon Van Hijfte
Well, our recruiters are love having everything in a structured way, having the data structured in a specific way. And of course if the AI is asking the questions, you can’t forget to ask a question. We’ve also seen that they sometimes ask a small supplementary question that the recruiter might not have thought of, but that might help down the line. And what’s very strong that the AI agent does as well is it not just only do the interview, but it can also check documents. And that’s very important for us because you know, in Europe there’s about 27 countries all with each different type of driving license that’s valid in Belgium. In Belgium alone there’s 10 or 15 different kinds of work permits. If we have to train our staff to recognize that validated, it’s very difficult.
16:04
Simon Van Hijfte
I remember back at the start of my career I had a 20 page book with all the different kinds of cards and IDs that I could check to see in reference. Now you can just ask the candidate to take a picture and it will see if the license is valid, if they have a work permit, if the diploma that’s needed is there. It just makes our lives a lot easier. We can put in create a job on Friday afternoon and by Monday morning you just have a whole stack of pre screened candidates in your mailbox or in a dashboard waiting to go through and see who are the great candidates. And of course also very handy as Rita showed, the system will score the candidates, but the system will not reject candidates. That was very important for Adeco, of course.
16:48
Simon Van Hijfte
Also there’s the EU AI act which doesn’t allow an AI system to take a decision. But it was very important for us that we can still take the decision because sometimes people don’t express themselves well at the bottom of the dossier we also get the full transcript of the conversation so that our consultants can also always go look back to see if something seems off with the screening. It doesn’t happen a lot but you know, not going to say the AI system is human and making mistakes, but you know, it makes mistakes and that’s very useful for our consultants on a day to day basis.
17:24
Matt Alder
And what’s the candidate response to this? Because there’s always been lots of debate about whether people like being interviewed by AI and all this kind of stuff or you know, how much data they’re sort of giving up to machines and things. Ritu, what are you seeing from the candidates in terms of how, responding, how are they responding to this?
17:41
Ritu Mohanka
They absolutely love it. It doesn’t feel like they’re filling out a form, it feels like they’re having a conversation and the agent guides them step by step, keeps them on track and answers their questions in real time. There’s no form fatigue and most importantly, no ghosting. They actually get feedback and updates as they go, which is a huge shift from the usual black hole experience. I’d like to know where do I stack up if I’m applying for this job, do I even stand a chance of getting this job? So if I know that I’ll invest more in it. It becomes personal without being overwhelming. They feel seen, they feel supported, they feel respected.
18:20
Ritu Mohanka
And that emotional response, that matters because a candidate who feels good about the process is far more likely to follow through and already starts with feeling good about the company they want to join.
18:33
Matt Alder
And Simon, you’re at the kind of the front end of this. What are you seeing?
18:38
Simon Van Hijfte
Well, maybe to start with, we always offer the option when we start the AI conversation telling the candidate, hey, if you would prefer, you can still talk to human. Here’s the phone number, here’s the email address. So far, we’ve now had the system for over four months. We’ve never seen a candidate actually request to talk to a human. So I think that already indicates that they’re really open to talk to the AI system. It also of course helps that the system is very natural, very friendly, very constructive. The system doesn’t get exasperated, doesn’t get tired, doesn’t have a bad day like some of our consultants might do. Of course they’re also human. The AI system is not human, it’s humane. It has a very natural, easy conversation with the candidate. The candidate doesn’t understand.
19:21
Simon Van Hijfte
It just repeats rephrases and tries to help pull the candidates almost through the system in a very great way.
19:31
Matt Alder
And what about the company benefits. You know, we see what your client’s saying.
19:35
Ritu Mohanka
Game changing, Matt. Recruiters are saving serious amount of time. Instead of wading through half filled forms or following up for missing details or getting a shortlist, but you know, just even finding a time to schedule that call, they’re getting a shortlist of qualified pre screened candidates who’ve already been through a six minute AI interview. That means they can move fast and with confidence. And more importantly, particularly if you’re a staffing agency, you want to delight your customers, you want to, you know, speed is so critical and if you’re able to go back to your clients faster with vetted candidates, you’ve already won the race. And when we’re talking better ROI on media, spend less money wasted on unqualified clicks and a much smoother hiring journey. I call it recruiter enablement at its best. Getting them out of this admin mode and into decision making.
20:30
Matt Alder
And what’s the impact been on your team, Simon?
20:33
Simon Van Hijfte
On the team itself? Well, they love, love the system because it takes out the boring work. Let’s say having to call a candidate seven or eight times before he picks up a phone, that’s a waste of time for them. It doesn’t add value to their day. And doing those very basic first screenings, I mean, if we had a whole team of interns to do it, that would be great. But we have a lot of qualified, highly experienced colleagues doing those, asking those very basic questions. Do the working hours work for you? Do you have a license? That’s really something that takes it out of them. So we see that employee satisfaction has increased in the branches that are trying it.
21:09
Simon Van Hijfte
And we hope, of course, that on the long term it will have an impact on our retention, which in the staffing industry is of course a big issue.
21:16
Matt Alder
Yeah, absolutely. And so from going from not using AI agents to using AI agents, I mean, how would you kind of sum it up? And what do you think it is that agents are kind of really bringing to the recruiting process?
21:30
Simon Van Hijfte
I think that they’re, you know, they’re cutting out the mindless, repetitive work while offering the opportunity to offer services or contact opportunities to our candidates that we would usually not have the time for. You know, asking those sometimes in depth questions. You know, in the first screening, people might already have questions. What is the company atmosphere like? What are the working hours and the first screening? Usually we don’t get to those because that’s in our head. More important down the line. But the AI allows candidates to ask those kind of questions. And for our colleagues, it’s just such a time saver. They can have candidates before they, you know, before they even realize and importance for our candidates.
22:14
Simon Van Hijfte
A lot of great candidates, especially when you look at permanent recruitment, you know, you apply on a Friday evening, on a Thursday night, when you are available, the AI system will call you straight away. If you are working from nine to five, just like our recruiters, you can’t pick up the phone on the job to answer a call from a recruiter. Of course that would be very awkward. But with the AI system we can already get through that first hurdle and we’ve seen that we’re missing out on a lot less great candidates. So from a business perspective, we’re getting our candidates quicker at a bigger speed, better candidates.
22:48
Simon Van Hijfte
And of course the cost to serve our clients is also reduced because those experienced colleagues calling candidates seven, eight times, doing a basic screen that takes 20 minutes, half an hour sometimes, you know, it’s all done for a very low cost by an AI system.
23:05
Matt Alder
Now, in the same way that companies can use AI for recruiting, it has become very clear that candidates can as well. And I know it’s creating a lot of issues for a lot of employers whether that’s kind of the bulk of applications that are coming in because candidates are using AI to finish them or fake applications or cheating or whatever it is. It’s kind of a massive issue. Ritu, what’s your take on this one?
23:30
Ritu Mohanka
It’s a growing concern, Matt. We hear employers mention this all the time and we experience it ourselves as an employee as well. Candidates use AI to craft perfectly looking applications, making it really hard to discern authenticity. They’re also using tools like Lazy Apply, which is creating an enormous amount of low value applications. Candidates are often applying for jobs that they don’t even know that they are applying for. And when a company uses our AI agents, they don’t need recruiter time to go through these applications. At VONQ, we are also building much more sort of more tooling if you like, to check that authenticity of an application. So for example, we do have a chat and an interview. We can also ask a candidate to upload documents during the process. Simon alluded to that earlier.
24:19
Ritu Mohanka
We can check for overfit if you like, to see if an application is too good for that particular role.
24:26
Matt Alder
And Simon, what’s the real world thing? It’s like, are you getting more applications? How are you sort of dealing with this?
24:33
Simon Van Hijfte
Well, from a DEI perspective, we really don’t Mind associates, using our candidates, using AI to polish their CV, help them at an interview. That’s all really not a problem for us. If it helps them, great. But of course we have seen an increase of candidates just using. There are tools out there that just allow candidates to apply for a thousand jobs in one go and see how it goes. Luckily, in the temporary staffing we are more towards the blue collar colleagues, low end, white collar. We haven’t seen that a lot there, but we have seen in our sister companies who are working more on IT profiles where there’s a real issue where AI can even do all the coding tests and so on, that’s a real problem for us. It’s not really an issue yet.
25:23
Simon Van Hijfte
It’s more of an assistance for our candidates at the moment.
25:26
Matt Alder
And I want to kind of just go back to the dossier from earlier and the point system that you’re using. So, Ritu, why that transition away from matching scores and all those things that we’ve seen in the past to this point system? Can you talk us through that?
25:42
Ritu Mohanka
Absolutely, Matt. And thanks to Simon and Adecco, they were a big sort of contributor towards making the shift moving from a matching paradigm to a scoring paradigm. And there are a few reasons for this. First off, there’s a regulatory drive. Simon alluded to this again, under the EU AI act, recruitment is seen as a high risk area. And that means that any AI assessments need to be both transparent and explainable. And a traditional matching system is often done in a sort of a black box. It finds similar candidates based on past examples, but you don’t really know why it made a decision it made and that’s not really acceptable under the new standards. Second, the matching actually reinforces bias.
26:29
Ritu Mohanka
If you feel an AI look through the successful hires and asked it to find more people like them, you’re essentially codifying and scaling whatever biases were already baked into your previous decisions. So instead we score candidates using 15 predefined criteria or vectors that are designed to be fair, relevant and explainable. So we ignore the characteristics that can introduce bias and focus on what really matters for job performance. So let me give you a quick example here, Matt. Say a bartender wants to apply for a customer support role. A matching system probably rejects the application immediately. Different job titles, different industries. You haven’t done a customer support role before. Scoring system sees the transferable skills. The bartender is used, you know, is used to the following instructions. It’s used to dealing with difficult customers.
27:28
Ritu Mohanka
It’s managing high stress situations, showing up on time so a good bartender is also a great listener and those skills translate directly into a support role. And that’s the power of scoring approach. It opens doors for people with the right abilities, not just the right resume keywords. And I think that’s the shift we are making from matching to scoring.
27:52
Matt Alder
And Simon, why was this approach important for Adecco and what are you seeing from implementing it?
27:59
Simon Van Hijfte
Well, it allows us to consider a larger group of candidates that might otherwise be overlooked. We’d also have to take into account somewhat a cultural approach to what is a good score. In some countries, a 90% match would be great. In other countries who say, no, we want 100% match, well, score kind of takes that out. While somebody that has only a 50% match might have an excellent score and might be an excellent candidate. But they’re not just matching one little thing that you can coach a candidate on. So scoring allows us to be a little more flexible on how we see a candidate.
28:36
Matt Alder
Fantastic. So final question for both of you. Time of dramatic change. We’re already seeing changes like this kind of coming in. What does the future look like? What’s important right now? Where do you think things are going in the future? Ritu, what’s your view?
28:52
Ritu Mohanka
The way organizations perhaps need to look at this is prioritizing people leads to better outcomes by enhancing the candidate experience. By enhancing or elevating recruiters and their role, we address a lot of recruiter pain points. So for example, CPA exemplifies how empathy combined with smart technology really benefits all parties. And in today’s AI driven landscape, a people first approach supported by AI distinguishes industry leaders.
29:25
Matt Alder
And Simon, some final thoughts for me.
29:27
Simon Van Hijfte
Well, I think it’s important to know that AI allows us to revolutionize our recruiting process. And it’s not really that’s enough of hurt fear. It’s not about replacing human interaction or cutting out our recruiters, but it’s about enhancing it. It allows us to be more efficient, to be more inclusive, to be more responsive and that will benefit our teams and our candidates. It allows our colleagues to put their time where it matters and I think that’s very important.
29:53
Matt Alder
Simon Ritu, thank you very much for joining me. My thanks to Simon and Ritu. You can follow this podcast on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify or wherever you listen to your podcasts. You can search all the past episodes at recruitingfuture.com on that site. You can also subscribe to our weekly newsletter, Recruiting Future Feast and get the inside track on everything that’s coming up on the show. Thanks very much for listening. I’ll be back next time, and I hope you’ll join me.
