With 1.5 million applications each year, L’Oréal Group’s talent acquisition team faces challenges on a scale most organizations would never experience. Managing this volume while ensuring a high-quality candidate experience demands innovation, agility, and the right balance between humans and technology
AI plays a key role in L’Oréal Group’s TA evolution, helping with screening and driving quality and efficiency via automation and standardization.
So, how do you use AI to transform talent acquisition without losing the vital human touch?
My guest this week is Michael Kienle, Global VP of Talent Acquisition at L’Oréal Group. In our conversation, Michael shares how his team is leveraging AI to improve the candidate experience and why he believes AI will help the TA teams of the future to radically increase the value they create for the business.
In the interview, we discuss:
• The growing complexity of talent acquisition
• L’Oreal Group’s recruiting challenges
• The critical importance of candidate experience
• AI impacts the how but not the why or what
• The balance between humans and machines
• Standardizing skills
• Brandstorm, L’Oreal’s unique business game and its impact on recruiting
• Increasing the value creation of TA
• How much change will we see in the next 12 months?
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Matt Alder [00:00:00]:
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Matt Alder [00:01:40]:
Hi there. Welcome to episode 669 of Recruiting Future with me, Matt Alder. With 1.5 million job applications a year, L’Oreal Group’s talent acquisition team faces challenges on a scale that most organizations would never experience. Managing this volume while ensuring a high quality candidate experience demands innovation, agility and the right balance between humans and technology. AI plays a key role in L’Oreal Group’s TA evolution, helping with screening and driving quality and efficiency via automation and standardization. So how do you use AI to transform talent acquisition without losing the vital human touch? My guest this week is Michael Kienle, L’Oreal Group’s global VP of talent acquisition. In our conversation, Michael shares how his team is leveraging AI to improve the candidate experience and why he believes that AI will help TA teams of the future to radically increase the value they create for their businesses. Hi Michael and welcome to the podcast.
Michael Kienle [00:02:50]:
Hi Matt, Great to be with you. Thanks for having me.
Matt Alder [00:02:53]:
An absolute pleasure to have you on the show. Please, could you introduce yourself and tell everyone what you do?
Michael Kienle [00:02:59]:
So my name is Michael. I’ve been with the L’Oreal group for 25 years now, starting in my home country in Germany as a marketeer. And then after a couple of years I realized that my true passion lies with people with talent. And so I switched to HR and my first role was the role of a recruiter and campus manager in Germany back at the time. And then for more than 15 years I’ve been an HR generalist, going from one division into, into another, being the HR country GM for Germany and for the Benelux subsidiary had global roles as the head of HR for Travel retail, our travel retail business. And now for the past three years back to, we call the center of Excellence role. So where it all started, back to recruitment, back to talent acquisition. Because one thing I think what probably was my first learning when I took this job a bit more than three years ago was that compared to my first experience As a recruiter 20, 20 years ago, this job of TA has evolved massively. And what I did 20 years ago and what I am expecting from my TAs and from my recruiters nowadays is very different. So it’s become much more complex. And that’s why I’m really, really happy and grateful to be in this role now.
Matt Alder [00:04:23]:
Fantastic stuff. And yes, it’s certainly evolving very quickly. And we’ll sort of dig into a few of the things going on in a second. Before we do though, just give us a little bit of context about L’Oreal. How many employees do have, how many people do you recruit? Give us a kind of a, a sense of the scale of it.
Michael Kienle [00:04:38]:
Yeah, L’Oreal, the L’Oreal group. And I have to insist on the L’Oreal group because a lot of people get confused between our biggest brand, which is the L’Oreal Paris brand, and the L’Oreal Group. So L’Oreal Paris is one of our 37 global brands and it’s the biggest one, but we have many more and very international brands. So that’s why I really insist on the L’Oreal group. So in 2023 we recruited worldwide roughly 15,000 people on an unlimited and fixed term contract. So I’m not in the 15,000 are not included the interns, apprentices, etc. And it’s roughly 90,000 people employees working for L’Oreal around the world in 150 countries. So yeah, it’s a global business where the world market leader for beauty and for care. And in 2023 our, our sales were about 42 billion euros.
Matt Alder [00:05:37]:
So just that’s really sort of helped contextualize everything. So we mentioned that the talent acquisition is evolving. This year has been a particularly interesting sort of stage of that evolution. What are the biggest challenges that you’re seeing in TA at The moment.
Michael Kienle [00:05:53]:
Well, there are a couple of challenges. First, you know, for a group like L’Oreal, the managing the volume of application is bec and more challenging. And that was one of the big differences between, you know, 20 years ago when I was a recruiter and when we received still the CVS on paper. And I remember the time, you know, I took them home in the evening, sat in front of the telly and was what was selecting, you know, or looking at the CVs and selecting the candidates that I want to interview. So today the sheer volume makes it totally impossible to do this job the way it was done 20 years, 20 years ago. So of course we need also the help of tech in order to help us select CVS and select candidates. So that’s probably the first and biggest change then the candidates are changing, the market is changing. Twenty years ago it was definitely an employer’s market because there was less demand than offer. And so the big multinationals, we could be quite picky when it came to Canada. Today is the other way around. You know, there are there that the demand is higher than the offer on the market and the best candidates today. And I think it’s true for all the big companies, they have 3, 4, 5 offers at the same time. So which makes the role of candidate experience much more important. So the candidates are really expecting a seamless process. They expect feedback and they expect, you know, and I think they’re totally right. They expect to be treated well, with a lot of respect, being informed throughout the whole process. And they expect also that the process is a short one. And so this puts expects, especially big companies with a lot of stakeholders under pressure. But I think it’s a good evolution because it makes us better internally. Also it makes us think about processes that 10, 15, 20 years ago we weren’t even thinking about it because we said, you know, we’re the world market leader in duty, so everybody wants to work for L’Oreal, which at the time wasn’t the case already. And today that the market is even more competitive. So, you know, we really have to do an excellent job when it comes to candidate experience in order to, to bring the best and most diverse talents across the line.
Matt Alder [00:08:30]:
Absolutely. And to dive into that, I suppose a little bit deeper. What do you think the forces are that are sort of driving those, those changes at the moment? And as kind of a second part to that, how’s your kind of approach to talent acquisition evolving at the moment over the last months and years?
Michael Kienle [00:08:46]:
So of course we’re embracing technology So I think that is really something. When you talk about AI, everybody’s talking about AI and every, a lot of people think, you know, it’s the new miracle solution to everything. We’re embracing AI in the sense of that it has an impact on how we work, but it does not have any impact on our why and our what. So I think it’s important to pause for a second and say, okay, what are we actually expecting from tech? What are we expecting from AI? Yes, it can provide us a lot of support at L’Oreal. I see it especially in two areas. The first one is what I mentioned before is in the selection process at the very beginning, we’re using AI to put a very, very filter because it’s true that today my recruiters cannot select amongst the 1.3 million applications that we receive every year. It’s impossible for about 200 recruiters to do it manually. So we need the help of AI to, you know, to, to, to have this first level of selection. However, what I’m saying and what is, what is true and what will always be true at L’Oreal is that at L’Oreal, we do not recruit. AI will not be the technology or we will not use a technology to rec recruit people. It will always be a human being who will make the final decision on if we recruit or not a candidate. And that will, that will remain, you know, always. That will always remain true at L’Oreal.
Matt Alder [00:10:18]:
You kind of mentioned a bit earlier about the candidate experience. You wanted this kind of real high quality candidate experience, the short recruitment, recruiting process. You kind of mentioned these sort of initial screening there. How else is, is AI helping with that? And how do you kind of get that balance between humans and machines with, with that kind of volum application?
Michael Kienle [00:10:39]:
You know, there is one thing, I’ll give you one example because it’s the most concrete one and we just launched it and I think we shouldn’t be afraid of using it for very, very basic, basic tasks as well. But one of our internal pain points that it also had an impact on candidate experience was job descriptions. So when I looked at the job descriptions in the past, I saw not necessarily a standardized version of our job descriptions between the different markets, between the different divisions, etc. In terms of candidate experience, you know, they, they, they, they didn’t really. Some were well, well executed, other were, others were a bit more confusing, et cetera. So it wasn’t standardized and it wasn’t, you know, one, let’s say good experience for, for a candidate so now we’re using our internal L’Oreal Jack GPT that we developed one and a half years, one and a half years ago, internally. And we fed this ChatGPT with a lot of information on our employer brand on the different skills. Also, we gave access to the skills library that we’ve implemented with 600 different skills so that, you know, each, each job and each job description is automatically linked with the skills that we’re looking for. And so today, thanks to, thanks to AI and our internal JPT at L’Oreal we can provide a, you know, a standardized, complete job description for each of the roles everywhere in the world. And so that the candid, if they are in Shanghai, in Sydney or in New York, they will recognize that they’re applying for L’Oreal and the skills are the same everywhere. So it’s a first step and this will help also. And we shouldn’t underestimate that. In the past, my recruiters have spent quite a lot of time and wasted a lot of time on every time that they had to do a job description. They started from zero, more or less. And today they just push the button. Of course, they still have to look at it and maybe make some individual adaptation. That’s very, very important because AI will never deliver the final, the 100% perfect solution. So there will always be the need for human brain to double check and to put maybe some additional comments or extra information on it. But it’s a real progress in terms of gaining time and, and be able to focus on what matters most than, you know, spending time on developing job descriptions.
Matt Alder [00:13:14]:
And do you think that that was a process you’d have ever been able to complete if it wasn’t for AI? Kind of. How much sort of time do you think that saved you? Or is it something that just wouldn’t have been possible before this?
Michael Kienle [00:13:26]:
Oh, it’s a good question. I’ve never asked myself the question. Probably if I could have focused only and exclusively on this one topic, we would have managed to do it probably at some point, but it would have taken an awful lot of. And the fact that, you know, that you, you focus exclusively on one topic is just not realistic. It never happens, you know, so, no, this, this was a real, real, real game changer.
Matt Alder [00:14:06]:
Out the sword, and then he followed her. They found chunks of her hair in the grass because he was swinging at her. New episodes air every other Sunday. Talking just in terms of talent as a whole for a minute or two. I know that one of the initiatives that you have is Brand Store. Tell us a little bit about it, why it started, what it is and what you’ve learned from it.
Michael Kienle [00:14:36]:
Brainstorm is an interesting case because it’s one of the worldwide, probably one of the longest running, what we used to call business games because it started as a business game 33 years ago in France and probably a handful of other European countries. It started as the Marketing Award. We worked with a couple of business schools and universities and the idea was really to provide students especially interested in marketing with the opportunity to, to work or to put themselves in the shoes of a product manager at L’Oreal. So it was really this learning and very realistic learning experience, working very closely with L’Oreal managers, with L’Oreal marketeers on a concrete business case. So it’s always been thing and that has not changed in 33 years. We always use cases or using cases that are very relevant and where at the same time L’Oreal teams are working on. So it’s not something, you know, that we’re digging out 10 years from 10 years ago when that we’re, we’re, we’re sharing with the students now. So, so that’s something really that, that hasn’t changed. What has changed on brandstorm is that it’s, you know, it’s become bigger and bigger and bigger. So we changed the name in early two from, from Marketing Award into brandstone because it’s not only for marketeers. So today, for instance, in, in our 2024 edition, we have 30% of the participants are STEM students. Of course there were still marketeers and still the brand management is at the core. But it’s become much more tech, it’s become much more generalist. You know, the 360 degree approach is much more important than in the beginning when once again it was very much about the 4Ps and about branding. Brandstorm today is part of the curriculum of more than 150 universities around the globe. We have a record number of inscriptions registrations this year with 135,000. So it’s, it’s become really a huge, it’s become a brand over the years. It’s become not only internally there is a big, big buzz every year about brandstorm, but also externally it’s become our number one employer branding tool, let’s be honest, because in terms of reach, of course it’s extremely interesting, but it’s Also a very, very important recruitment tool. And they’re very, you know, they’re very transparent about that. So it’s a fantastic learning experience. For the past two years, we’ve been also cert an elearning learning experience by eocs. So we’ve got this stamp which is very important. And today, you know, our participants, the Brandstone participants, if recruited or not by L’Oreal, afterwards they put it in their CV as if it was an internship, because it’s exactly the same value. So it’s become, we’re really proud of it, but we’re really. What we’re more proud of it is that we’re really providing today for students around the world a fantastic learning experience that helps them, of course, to get to know L’Oreal better, to get to know the market better, but really to work on topics that are topics that our teams worldwide are working on. And just the last piece of information that I would like to share. You know, we started off as a, I would even say Western European business game. And today the top three countries in terms of registrations are China, India and the Philippines. So, you know, we’re reaching also potential candidates and learners in countries where, yes, we have a subsidiaries, but where we’ll never be able to recruit that many people, especially the Philippines, we have a small subsidiary, but we have almost 20,000 registrants in the Philippines for Branstorm every year, which is amazing, which makes us proud because these people, the ones who are playing Brainstorm, it really has an impact on their employability afterwards because it’s a door opener, of course at L’Oreal, but also for many other companies.
Matt Alder [00:18:57]:
No, absolutely. And do you have to be a student to do it? Is it open to everyone? What are the kind of premises around.
Michael Kienle [00:19:05]:
Started off as a student business game and in 2019, we, we slightly extended the rules. So today the criteria is that you have to, to be below 30. So you even can, you know, as a young professional already working, having a professional career, you can still participate. You need to be, you need to form a team of three. And ideally it’s also a diverse team in terms of gender.
Matt Alder [00:19:35]:
Interesting. And are there any numbers around the sort of proportion of people that you recruit who come through that route every year?
Michael Kienle [00:19:40]:
So in terms of recruitment, it’s, it’s. We’re a bit struggling to, to measure the success of Brandstorm. When we look at, at just, at one year, for instance, at the, at the 2024 edition, we say, okay, we’re measuring the participants of the 2024 edition and we look at how many were recruited in 2024 then we’re at roughly between 800 and thousand. However, we have a lot of people playing Branstorm that are, that haven’t finished their studies yet etc so they might be recruited in the years to come. But overall we have since the beginning. We are still today there are rough. I think It’s. We’re about 5,000 ex brandstormers that currently still work at L’Oreal.
Matt Alder [00:20:29]:
Wow. So that’s a. They’re big numbers. And so turning to the, the future for ta. So you know we’re already going through a time of crazy, crazy change. Lots of implications around things like AI. Like we were talking about. How do you think that’s going shape the TA team of the future? What do you think TA teams will look like in a few years time? You know, how they, how will they fit into the business, how will they be structured, what kind of skills might have they have in them?
Michael Kienle [00:20:59]:
What I’ve seen In the past 20 years, the, you know, the TA role becoming more and more complex. I think that will be still the case in the years to come with one difference and this is where my, my hope, I have a lot of hope, you know, when it comes to, to AI that AI will, will help my recruiters to make their job easier in the sense of, you know, getting, getting rid of a lot of administrative tasks, a lot of time consuming tasks that are not really creating value. I just mentioned the job descriptions we’re using. Another example would have been the auto, auto scheduling of interviews. It’s details, you know, but these details I realized that they’re really taking a lot of the time of, of of my recruiters. And so I hope with or I, I can already see, you know that with the help of AI these tasks can be automized. And so they’re freeing time, this is freeing time for the recruiters to really spend with the candidates with the business so to do what really matters and, and in order to really create value. So I think that would be you know, one, one aspect of, of the evolution of, of the role. The complexity in terms of what we, in terms of expertise and skills. What we expect from TA I think will not be reduced which also makes the attractiveness of the role because at the time 20 years ago I was, I was recruiting, I was going, you know, I was selecting cvs, I was interviewing and I was going to campus from time to time with the L’Oreal flag to attract, to attract talents. Today you have to be, you know, as a ta, you’re, you’re a change maker, you’re an internal, the stakeholder management internally is extremely important. You’re a content producer, everything we do on TikTok, the big campaigns that we’re launching, you’re mastering the complexity of employer branding on social networks, paid media, advocacy. At the same time, you need to increase your expertise when it comes to assessment skills because today, thanks also to AI, our candidates are much better prepared for interviews. So that means also that our assessment skills need to be, need to be improved and TA will be or is already, but will be even more the mirror of the organization. You know, today I have, in each of the different functions, be it beauty, tech, operations, finance, I have dedicated recruiters because I need that, really, that expertise. And at the same time you also see, you know, a need of becoming more generalist recruiters that are capable of, you know, identifying talents worldwide for roles, for leadership roles, managers, you know, in charge of big P Ls, et cetera. So it’s some, some contradicting, contradictory, probably effects. In short, the complexity will increase, I think, which also will have a, an impact on the attractiveness. I think the TA job will become even more attractive as long as we’re leveraging AI in the right way to really get rid of all the admin or most of the admin tasks so that the value creation of the job is stronger than today or even stronger than today.
Matt Alder [00:24:20]:
Absolutely, I completely agree with you there. And as a final question, because we talk about AI, we talk about change, we talk about what the future looks like. We’re recording this right at the start of December. So 2025 is knocking on the door. It’s very much with us. How much change do you think we’ll see in the next 12 months? What are you sort of planning for? What are you looking forward to in 2025?
Michael Kienle [00:24:44]:
I would say, you know, at L’Oreal, we’re embracing change, but we’re not disrupting because our philosophy is to seize what is starting. And we saw it with AI, you know, the way that we were embracing AI. I mentioned the L’Oreal ChatGPT that was, was developed in a very short period of time. L’Oreal has been training 30,000 employees on how to use AI, how to use chat, GPT. So there is a massive scaling up. At the same time, you know, we’re not, we’re not what we’re going to change or what we’re going to impact with AI is the how, how we’re doing things but neither the why nor the what will will, will change. So when I look at 2025, I think what we need to, what I see for my team is to, to strengthen the foundations. And for me the foundations is campus management is candidate experience is the way how we attract our, our candidates. And you know, we talk a lot about employer brand and we can say L’Oreal has, has a strong, has a good employer brand. But when we dig deeper, there are target groups that we would like to reach that are not easy to reach for us. Today we talk about tech, let’s be honest, we’d like to talk about also, you know, about men because L’Oreal is an employer love brand for many women. There are still men out there. I think, yeah, why should I, you know, why should I apply for a beauty company? Even though today the world Beauty Market 25 already 25 of the world beauty market is male beauty. A lot of, a lot of people underestimate that. So it means also that in order to do marketing for these products, ideally you have, I’m not saying only, but we need to have a strong representation of very talented men also in, in the company. And so you know, it’s not, you would say it’s not rocket science, but to make it happen, it takes time. And that’s why, you know, 2025 we continue to, to, to look into how AI can help us to, to make sure that our, our recruiters focus matters most and by, and at the same time to really strengthen the fundamentals that I’ve just mentioned.
Matt Alder [00:27:08]:
Michael, thank you very much for joining me.
Michael Kienle [00:27:11]:
Thank you so much. Matt was a pleasure.
Matt Alder [00:27:14]:
My thanks to Michael. You can follow this podcast on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. You can search all the past episodes at recruitingfuture.com on that site. You can also subscribe to our weekly newsletter Recruiting Future Feast and get the inside track on everything that’s coming up on the show. Thanks very much for listening. I’ll be back next time and I hope you’ll join me.
