If you’ve listened to the last few episodes of the podcast, you’ll know that TA Transformation is the current big theme on the show. We’ve focused a lot on the future, but what about the practicalities of the present?
Today’s talent acquisition leaders face an ever-growing list of priorities on top of their already demanding roles. From enhancing candidate experience to integrating AI and from improving diversity and inclusion metrics to establishing more agile operating models, the pressures are immense.
So what progress are TA teams making, and how do they benchmark against each other?
My guest this week is Rachel Dalboth, Director of the Talent Acquisition Centre of Excellence at The Talent Labs. Based on Talent Labs research, Rachel offers insights into how TA teams are dealing with their current challenges. She also shares her thoughts on the skills for future TA Teams and the vital importance of investing in development.
In the interview, we discuss:
• Current priorities in talent acquisition
• Trends and issues with operating models
• What is holding TA back from being seen as more strategic?
• Connecting the dots across the talent function
• What is the unique value of TA?
• How are measurements and metrics evolving?
• The impact of AI
• Fear, nervousness, and reticence
• Prioritising experience over process
• Skills development and career paths
• What does the next 12 months look like?
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Matt Alder [00:00:00]:
Hi, this is Matt. Just before we start the show, I want to tell you about a free white paper that I’ve just published on AI and talent acquisition. We all know that AI is going to dramatically change recruiting, but what will that really look like? For example, imagine a future where AI can predict your company’s future talent needs. Build dynamic external and internal talent pools, craft personal personalized candidate experiences, and intelligently automate recruitment marketing. The new white paper, 10 Ways AI Will Transform Talent Acquisition doesn’t claim to have all the answers, but it does explore the most likely scenarios on how AI will impact recruiting. So get a head start on planning and influencing the future of your talent acquisition strategy. You can download your copy of the white paper and at Mattalder.me/transform. That’s Mattalder.me/transform.
Matt Alder [00:01:21]:
Hi there. Welcome to episode 641 of Recruiting Future with me, Matt Alder. If you’ve listened the last few episodes of the podcast, you’ll know that TA transformation is currently a big theme on the show. We focused a lot on the future, but what about the practicalities of the present? Today’s talent acquisition leaders face an ever growing list of priorities on top of their already demanding roles. From enhancing candidate experience to integrating AI, and from improving diversity metrics to establishing more agile operating models, the pressures are immense. So what progress are TA teams making and how do they benchmark against each other? My guest this week is Rachel Dalboth, Director of the TA center of Excellence at the Talent Labs. Based on the Talent Labs research, Rachel offers insights into how TA teams are dealing with the current challenge challenges. She also shares her thoughts on skills for future TA teams and the vital importance of investing in development.
Matt Alder [00:02:31]:
Hi Rachel and welcome to the podcast.
Rachel Dalboth [00:02:34]:
Thank you so much. Lovely to be here. Thank you for having me.
Matt Alder [00:02:37]:
An absolute pleasure to have you on the show. Please could you introduce yourself and tell everyone what you do?
Rachel Dalboth [00:02:42]:
Yeah, absolutely. So, hi everybody, I’m Rachel Dalboth. I am the director for our TA center of Excellence at the Talent Labs. I’ve been in the TA space gotten various guises for the past 25 plus years. So I’ve been a recruiter, a recruitment leader and also a speaker. And I now head up the team that curates and creates all of our expert content for talent acquisition at the Talent Lab. So that’s right across research, resources, training and consultancy.
Matt Alder [00:03:13]:
Now just tell us a little bit more about the Talent Labs. For people who might not be familiar with, you know, what it is and what you do.
Rachel Dalboth [00:03:20]:
Of course, of course. So the Talent Labs is a training consultancy and membership organization. And actually, Matt, some of your listeners might remember us as the firm previously. We actually started as a LinkedIn group back in 2007. We grew to become the leading membership organization for Talent Acquisition and then recently, back in June, rebranded Diversified our services just to really help join the dops between Talent Acquisition, but also Talent management and talent development. So I guess we provide a nice safe space for talent professionals to learn, grow, experiment. And as I say, we do that for all talent professionals globally. So we provide resources, events, training, consultancy, research and also membership. So a little bit about us. Hopefully people recognize us as our new name, the Talent Labs. Now.
Matt Alder [00:04:16]:
Fantastic stuff. And obviously, as you say that you do a lot of research, you talk to a huge amount of people working at the coalface in Talent Acquisition. What are you seeing in the market at the moment? What are the main challenges and issues that TA teams are facing?
Rachel Dalboth [00:04:34]:
Gosh, I mean, there’s a few things I would probably call out. I guess the first thing is probably about just the growing list of priorities on top of day job, which we know is already taking them huge numbers of hours each day. Actually, we did some, some recent research, partnered with Poetry and that showed something like 511 minutes or nearly 8 and a half hours a day worth of just BAU activities. So when you think about, as you say, the research that we do and some of the priorities that are on top of some of that bau, it’s quite incredible to think what people are managing now. We’ve got our annual research out at the moment, but certainly when we look at the last report, we know that those 20, 24 challenges priorities are around some really key areas, candidate experience. You know, we’re seeing 53% of people calling that out as being a really top, number one priority for people. So really thinking about how they differentiate that candidate experience. Good to see that EDNI is still there, second on the list of priorities. But that’s not a small thing for people to think about in terms of how they’re reporting, measuring some of the initiatives that they’re putting in place around that EVP and eb. We’ve seen it in the top three for a long time. It is down slightly from last year, but again still in that top three. And we’re really seeing lots of people predicting that employer branding, investments and initiatives are actually going to increase this year. And then of course, we’ve started to see the sort of rise of a couple of other ones. So data and metrics we’ve seen that really come up in terms of the list of priorities quite interesting because we’re seeing numbers of people, something like 26% are not recording even cost per hire and 8% not measuring time to hire. And yet we’ve seen a real growth in the focus on data and metrics. Rightly so. And then AI, unsurprisingly Matt, you’ll know that that’s really coming up the ranks. So we’re really starting to see an interest and a focus on that. And yet only 22% are actually using it according to IA reports. So you know, people waiting to see what’s going to happen, what’s everyone else doing, what’s the legislation going to do. So that’s the first thing I’d call out is just the number of things in that even top five that people are trying to focus on, grapple with on top of a very, very busy day job.
Matt Alder [00:07:18]:
And in terms of how TA is structured, what are the kind of the main operating models that you’re seeing? Is there a sort of a trend in a specific direction in terms of the way that teams might be being restructured?
Rachel Dalboth [00:07:32]:
Yeah, there is. So unlike a few years ago when we saw a lot of outsourcing, sort of felt like the hokey cokey for insourcing and outsourcing at one point, didn’t it? There’s been a big move back to in house roles. So actually when we did some research on this, only 2% of respondents had a partial or full RPO model. But what we have seen is a real rise in more of an agile RPO or sort of on demand service type model. We’re seeing a lot of centralized models still. So sort of 67% of respondents are still operating that kind of model. But a lot of, a lot of those are in smaller organizations. Big proportion of those are hiring less than 500 vacancies per year or managing less than 10 RECs per recruiter. So we see that large proportion of those are in smaller organizations and a lot of those who are operating those centralized models, big proportion of those tend to be functionally aligned in that type of model. Now we are seeing a lot of popularity in that and we’re seeing that, you know, a lot of people are saying that they’re pretty effective models. 79% of the people that we surveyed saw them as highly effective having those centralized models. But what’s really, I guess slightly concerning is that only 35% of our respondents actually rated any of their models as highly effective in the first place. So. So this gives you some idea, I guess, as to why. Actually, just less than half of those are actually reviewing those models at the moment. And a lot of those have had their model in place for two to five years already. So we’re starting to see some reviews happening. Certainly we’re getting a lot more clients coming to us, talking about how we can help them review those, and we’re seeing an emergence of more of the hybrid models as well. Actually, 15% of our respondents already have this type of model. So, you know, what I think we’re seeing is TA leaders really sort of attempting to strike a balance between leveraging stuff for global scale and repeatable tasks, but also really understanding and appreciating the value of local market knowledge. You know, really trying to address the challenges of finding great local talent. So, yes, we are seeing some changes there, and we are seeing people certainly reviewing those models more and more.
Matt Alder [00:09:50]:
You mentioned how busy TA is, that there’s a lot of stuff going on. There does feel, to some extent, there’s also a kind of a lack of control about all of these, you know, all of these things and these competing priorities. What is it, do you think, that holds TA back from being seen as a strategic function that sets those priorities and really kind of drives things forward towards a vision of the future?
Rachel Dalboth [00:10:16]:
Yeah, I think there’s probably a couple of things. I think the first one is around, look, there’s a bit of a historical piece here, which I hate the fact that it’s still at play, but I think it is in some cases, which is around that kind of historical incorrect. I hasten to add perception about TA being more of a back office or administrative function. And we all know that’s absolutely not true. I think the second thing is just about that sheer workload that I mentioned before. But I think there’s another piece about how we really proactively demonstrate that we can connect the dots across the talent piece. And I guess that really plays into why we have become the talent labs and why we’ve diversified what we do. Because, you know, we are seeing a real rise in the acknowledgment that there needs to be better connectivity between all of the different talent functions that we have. You know, we’re seeing a raise in internal mobility this year. So, you know, we’re starting to see internal and external hiring ratios really change. It went from 60, 40 to 70, 30 in the last 12 months. I suspect we’ll see a change again on the latest annual survey. So you know, it’s how we really align what we do and connect with what we do to the broader organizational strategy and goals. And that becomes much easier if what we do in talent acquisition connects to that broader people agenda.
Matt Alder [00:11:53]:
What do you think is the unique insights or value that TA brings to that kind of bigger talent picture?
Rachel Dalboth [00:11:58]:
I think we bring huge value and insights. I mean who knows the market and the talent and what they want better than talent acquisition? Right. We have all of that really available to us. We’re in that market all of the time. But actually it’s about taking a bit of a step change. So we need to really demonstrate that value and that expertise and that insights and really start to use that to influence outcomes for the business. And dare I say it, that might be resulting in something not becoming a piece of recruitment that sits with the talent acquisition team. And that’s okay. I think number one, talent acquisition should be sat in that business really understanding the strategy of the functions that they support, the teams that they support. And we do that all day, every day hopefully so we know what capabilities are really needed to make those strategies achievable. The key thing I think Matt, is about us not waiting for that all important requisition that’s been approved for a job called X at a grade called Y in this specific LOC to come through and determine what we do. Actually if we can get ahead of the game and we can start to influence some of those outcomes, get into the conversations about talent much earlier so we know what’s going on in our organization, then we can actually have a real opportunity to influence that location strategy, that reward strategy, what that role looks like, what it’s called, and really start to influence some of those things because we have that intel, we have that knowledge and we have those capabilities. It’s about having the conversations earlier rather than waiting for them to become a buttoned up, very specific requisition that we then action.
Matt Alder [00:13:55]:
You mentioned some of the issues with who’s measuring what. How is measurement and metrics evolving in ta? What are the really kind of innovative organizations doing?
Rachel Dalboth [00:14:05]:
Well, I think they are evolving and I’ll be honest with you, I’m quite glad to see that they are. It’s been a bit of a bugbear of mine for a while if I’m being honest. I think it’s happening slower than we would like to see. But what we are starting to identify is that where we would historically see a lot of that Kind of cost per hire, time to hire type metric. And you know, those are still there. We’ve seen some of those growing, but what we are seeing come up the ranks more and more is this idea about quality. And I think that’s really important because if we want to get more investment into our function, if we want to demonstrate that value that you and I were just speaking about, then actually how we measure ourselves is a really important part of that piece. Right. So you know, when you think about some of the metrics that we use, there’s a bit of a tension, isn’t there? Because if you look at cost per hire, time to hire, you know, that’s about getting people in quickly and cheaply. Now that might be really relevant in some cases, but actually what our real core role is is about getting the right talent at the right time and doing that so that that talent stays with us and know performs. So I think quality of hire alongside some of the other metrics is tricky, but it’s a really important one for us to start using. I think the difficulty and the reason that we haven’t seen that happen quite so quickly is because it’s quite a difficult one to measure. There’s lots of ways of potentially measuring quality of hire. We’ve got people talking about it in retention terms, people passing their probation period, how quickly someone becomes productive, even hiring managers rating that new starter’s performance. But you know, there are lots of different combinations of some of those things. And actually we should be looking at the candidates view of fit too. I’ve had some really interesting chats about that with people recently. So I think we are seeing a change. I’m pleased about that. I don’t think it’s going to happen overnight because it is not necessarily easy and we have a bit of education back to the business to explain why those quality metrics are important alongside if nothing else. And what I’d love to see is actually people looking at potentially different metrics for different roles, because I’m not sure that there should be a one size fits all.
Matt Alder [00:16:39]:
No, I completely agree. You mentioned AI right at the start. You mentioned that there’s potentially some reluctance or hesitance to dive in and use it at the moment. What do you think the potential impact is from AI and automation on TA roles moving forward?
Rachel Dalboth [00:16:59]:
I think we all know it’s going to be huge and I think that’s probably where some of the nervousness comes into. I don’t think anybody’s going to sit there and say that’s not going to be part of our world, because, you know, it is. And we can see that. The OBR recently predicted that AI technology could support raising productivity by about half a percent point by 2829. So we know that the impact around the workforce itself is going to be massive, particularly in the tech sector. And there’s also huge opportunity for automation in TA. I mean, think back to, you know, that, that 511 minutes that people are spending doing BAU work in a talent acquisition role. There’s huge opportunity to support the work that we do. You know, think about interview scheduling, think about outreach, messages, etc. But yes, we are seeing this nervousness because it is a big thing. Getting it right is important. We know there’s going to be some legislative changes. And so I think what we’re seeing is a little bit of a sort of, you know, peering over the fence, but waiting to see what, what the right thing to do is and what other people are doing. And of course, it’s not just about how recruiters are going to use, it’s also about kind of how candidates use it. We’re already getting lots of questions here about, you know, should candidates be allowed to use AI, And I think what we’re starting to see is that actually this is going to be something that’s going to become a measurable skill potentially. Right? So how people even use AI to apply for a role might be something that’s part of the assessment process quite quickly. So it’s a really interesting one because it doesn’t just affect our role, it affects all of the roles that we recruit as well. And I think how we reskill ourselves and how we reskill that workforce to manage and work with AI is going to be particularly interesting.
Matt Alder [00:19:03]:
We’ve got the very difficult situation where, you know, people are reluctant to dive in, want to see what’s going to happen, but actually, things are moving so quickly. That’s not the best strategy in terms of moving forward. So the conundrum there is obviously, how can TA leaders make sure that they’ve got the right skills in their teams for the future that we’re going into? Because that might happen very, very quickly. And obviously that’s something they need to plan for right now.
Rachel Dalboth [00:19:32]:
Yes, it is. And I’ll be honest with you, I think the first thing is doing exactly what you’ve described in the first place, which is actually investing in development first and foremost. You know, I was quite shocked to see that, actually, from our respondents to some research that we did around organizations related to talent acquisition only 10% of a TA budget in some cases is actually being spent on development for TA folk, which is tiny. And actually only 18% of those responding organisations actually have some clear career paths for those recruiters, which is. It’s a difficult one to square. So I do in part understand why that figure might be lower than we would like to see. You know, we’ve had the emergence of very specific roles, haven’t we, around sources, for example, or those perhaps that are doing more of the business partnering type roles, but having some very clear thought about career paths, what that looks like for your recruiting teams. Having that budget to actually allocate to development, I think is really important. We’re seeing a lot of people coming to us talking about skills matrices. I think that’s an important piece of work to do. Um, and my. I think the biggest part of development is really going to be about how we skill people up to deliver an experience over a process. Now we’ve been talking about that for years, but AI is really accelerating that because, you know, if you think about the roles that AI is going to be able to manage for us, I don’t think that suddenly takes away the role of a recruiter at all. I know there’s a lot of fear about that. I think what it means is that our role is going to change, to become much more human again. And so those that are perhaps in it for the love of a process, perhaps that’s going to be a little bit of more of a decision about whether they want to stay in talent acquisition. Because I think that role is going to become much more about managing AI and managing an experience in a very human, personalized way. Because that’s the bit that AI can’t do and that’s the bit where we can add some real value. That and being quite savvy with your data, being able to bring that into play, as I talked about earlier, in a really influential way. So there are some specific skills we can see that are going to be needed in ta. The biggest part now is for those teams to make sure that that investment is made into that development.
Matt Alder [00:22:10]:
So pulling this all together. So we’re just into September now and thoughts are obviously turning to next year, to 2025. What do you think the short term future looks like for ta? What are people likely to be focusing on as we sort of move into and move through 2025?
Rachel Dalboth [00:22:30]:
Well, it’s certainly some of those things we’ve already spoken about. So, you know, automation, as I say, that’s not going to go anywhere, is It, I think we can hide from it, but it’s not going away. So, you know, really thinking about and planning for what is that going to mean in 2025? What is it going to do for the roles that we recruit for and what is it going to mean for the roles that we ourselves do? So that skills development piece in both our own roles and for the broader organization, which then comes to some of that sort of skills development piece, I think there’s also a real soft skills development focus that’s needed. Josh Burstyn and the likes of IBM have talked before about soft skills being power skills. Whether or not you like the title, it’s because actually they’re the things that we can harness to really add value to what we do in delivering experiences, whether it’s to candidates or more broadly to employees as a talent function. So. So I think there’s a lot around soft skills development that’s needed. We’re seeing that from our clients in swathes and that kind of all connects with bringing that talent function closer together. Less siloed organizations where really those talent acquisition development management teams are working far, far closer together, thinking about things like workforce planning, thinking about things like internal mobility and reskilling, how we do skills first hiring, we can’t do that in isolation. As talent acquisition, we have to work with our learning and development colleagues to really make that work seamlessly. So again, you know, kind of connecting those dots a lot more, I think is going to be an absolute focus for 2025.
Matt Alder [00:24:24]:
Rachel, thank you very much for talking to me.
Rachel Dalboth [00:24:27]:
Thank you so much. I appreciate it.
Rachel Dalboth [00:24:30]:
My thanks to Rachel. You can follow this podcast on Apple Podcasts on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. You can search all the past episodes@recruitingfuture.com on that site. You can also subscribe to our weekly newsletter, Recruiting Future Feast, and get the inside track about everything that’s coming up on the show. Thanks very much for listening. I’ll be back next time and I hope you’ll join me.
