Over the last six months, we have talked a lot about transformation in talent acquisition with a large number of employers working hard to reinvent their strategies to meet the new challenges they face.
So what does great talent acquisition now look like in 2021? Well, that’s a question I’ll be focusing on a lot in the coming weeks and months.
My guests this week are Rona Anhalt, and Ed Nathanson, the Chief People Officer and VP of Talent and Talent Branding at disruptive pharmaceutical startup EQRx. Since their launch early last year, EQRx has done fantastic work in talent branding and talent acquisition and really is a benchmark for what hiring strategies should now look like.
In the interview, we discuss:
▪ How EQRx is disrupting the pharmaceutical industry
▪ The challenges of scaling up talent acquisition in a pandemic
▪ Building a purpose driven culture
▪ Diversity, Equality, Fairness and Inclusion
▪ Culture add over culture fit.
▪ Superpowers
▪ Being bold with talent branding
▪ The power of people stories and authentic interviews
▪ Candidate experience as the ultimate differentiator
▪ What they will be focusing on in the next 12 months
What they will be focusing on in the next 12 months
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Transcript:
Matt Alder [00:00:00]:
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Matt Alder [00:01:18]:
Hi everyone, this is Matt Alder. Welcome to episode 328 of the Recruiting Future podcast. Over the last six months, we’ve talked a lot about transformation in talent acquisition, with a large number of employers now working hard to reinvent their strategies to meet the new challenges they face. So what does great talent acquisition now look like in 2021? Well, that’s a question I’ll be focusing on a lot in the coming weeks and months. My guests this week are Rona Anhalt and Ed Nathanson, the Chief people officer and VP of talent and talent branding at disruptive pharmaceutical startup EQRx. Since their launch early last year, EQRx have done some amazing work in talent branding and talent acquisition and really are a benchmark for what hiring strategies should now look like. Hi Rona and Ed, welcome to the podcast. Could you just introduce yourselves and tell us what you do?
Rona Anhalt [00:02:31]:
Sure. Hi and thank you for having us. Really excited to be here. So I’m Rona Anhalt. I am the Chief people officer of EQRx. I joined the company in August of 2020. It seems like a very, very long time ago given how much we’ve accomplished as a company since then, but it’s actually really in only 5 plus months. I have quite a number of years of experience in the life sciences industry. I’ve been in the industry for almost about 17 years. I spent 12 years at Novartis Pharmaceuticals in a variety of different HR roles, kind of generalist and specialty roles. Before I joined EQR X, I was in a senior HR role at Celgene Corporation, which was recently acquired by Bristol Myers Squibb and it was around that time that I made the decision to leave and try a new adventure. And here I am at EQRx and delighted to be here and to be a guest on your show.
Ed Nathanson [00:03:36]:
And I’m Ed Nathanson. My role is the VP, talent and branding here at EQRx. I, too, Matt, am thankful to be on your show. As you know, I’ve told you before, I’m a big fan of the Recruiting Future podcast, so to be on here is kind of meta for. But prior to EQRx, I had my own consultancy where I got to work with a lot of companies around the world. And prior to that, I had a number of years in tech, heading up recruiting and employer branding at a lot of companies. But without a doubt, as I’m sure we’re about to talk about, EQRx has been one of, if not the most exciting journeys I’ve ever been on.
Matt Alder [00:04:16]:
So an absolute pleasure to have you both on the show. And also welcome back, Ed, because you were on, you were on a little while ago when you were running your consultancy. So, yes, people who aren’t familiar with EQRx, tell us what the company does.
Rona Anhalt [00:04:29]:
Sure. So we love to refer to ourselves as a disruptor, and we are a disruptor in the health care and in the pharmaceutical industry. I thought that really is at the heart of who we are. So we are a company that is in the business of developing medications and therapies for patients that we intend to deliver at radically lower prices than is typically the case in the pharmaceutical industry. And these are not generics, as some might think when they hear lower prices. But we’re actually aiming to deliver branded medications equally as good as or better than the medications currently on the market for some very significant diseases affecting large swaths of the population for whom access has been challenging. Because, you know, quite honestly, of the high prices. You know, one thing I think we’ll run through the theme of what we talk about today, Matt. You know, our industry, the pharmaceutical industry in general, has essentially, essentially relied on the status quo to thrive as an industry. And that brings in this, you know, when you’re trying to build a disruptor, you’re actually, you know, you’re bucking up against the stat quo. And, you know, your aim is to really challenge that. So, you know, while we in some ways may look like a traditional pharmaceutical company, we’re very much not that in the sense that we’re trying to drive through this status quo that has maintained our industry for many, many years now.
Matt Alder [00:06:12]:
As I understand it, you’re a startup business, it’s still a relatively new business and you were effectively growing the team during the. The very challenging times that. Well, the very challenging facing at the moment, but the particularly challenging times we were facing last year. Talk us through some of the talent acquisition challenges that you have.
Ed Nathanson [00:06:33]:
I love this question because it’s probably unlike anything I’ve ever experienced in my career and I know in talking to Rona, she would probably say the same thing. So I’m a bit of a veteran at EQRx. I’ve been there since probably a month or two after they launched. And so that’s a little, almost a year now. So that’s how new we are to the world. And you know, we had come out with some very strong financing in our big industry conference. There was a lot of press and then, you know, the world turned kind of turned upside down. So here we are, brand new company, no one knows who we are. We have a very disruptive model that, you know, we need to get messaging out to the world. But we’re a startup, so we can’t really talk about a lot of the secret sauce, so to speak, of what we do and how we’re doing it. And by the way, we had a goal of being 100 people, so kind of going from 0 to 100 in a year. So incredibly challenging and starting from scratch. So all the things that I know a lot of people kind of take for granted of having basic things in place like applicant tracking systems, to building an employer brand, to building a recruiting department, to building processes and structures, and on top of that, training a team that hiring is part of everyone’s jobs and how important candidate experience is. It’s really like picture the cleanest slate possible from a company perspective, from a process perspective, from a presence perspective, and then starting from scratch and kind of pushing the gas and going at 100 miles an hour.
Rona Anhalt [00:08:08]:
It’s almost as if Ed and the team that he worked with to develop some of the recruiting practices had this foresight that something big and unprecedented was going to happen because the mechanisms of, you know, the forward thinking, mechanisms around and some of what we’ll talk about how you use social media, how you use technology really early on, which is not an easy thing for a startup to do. You know, we’re, we’re such a big part of how they were setting up the function and the recruiting philosophy in general, that it has really, you know, served as kind of the backbone, I think, of our success in, in this space to Date.
Matt Alder [00:08:50]:
Amazing stuff. And I want to know so much more about this, particularly some of the things that you’ve done in terms of recruitment, marketing and an employer brand and you know, as you say, social and technology. I suppose before we get into that though, just to back up a little bit, one of the things that we’ve discussed a few times on the show when it comes to startup companies and how they scale up is culture. In terms of establishing a company culture, what is the, the company culture? Talk us through culture. As far as EQRX are concerned, we.
Rona Anhalt [00:09:26]:
Are a very purpose driven and mission driven organization. You know, and I’ve always said I, I’ve spent many years in the life sciences industry and I think those of us who have, have always felt very privileged to be in an industry where, you know, you’re, you’re the output of what you are focused on and that you’re doing on a day to day basis ultimately brings bringing therapies to patients, etc. I mean there’s a real purpose behind what we do and you know, I’ve always felt, as I said, privileged to be in this space. EQRX is sort of, as I sometimes say, it’s kind of that, to, you know, a logarithmic degree, it’s not just about bringing these therapies to patients, but it’s also easing the financial burden and financial toxicity associated with that. So at the core of who we are, we’re an incredibly mission driven organization. And I think from a cultural perspective, you know, every, the culture and who we are from a sort of our business model, they’re, you know, very much tied together. So there isn’t this sort of here’s your business and what you, you know, what you’re trying to accomplish from a business perspective. And then here’s your culture. I mean there was a lot of thought put in at the very, very beginning around these two things being fundamentally intertwined, which I think is very significant because we are successful in many ways in pulling our kind of the underpinnings of our culture through to a lot of different things that we do in the organization. And so I’ll start with the business of bringing equally good or better medicines to patients is about equality and equal access. And we pull these notions of equality, fairness, inclusion if you will. We really pull it through in, in the way that, you know, we look at culture in our organization. You know, we think about how do we create diversity and inclusion. It really goes back to our business model. And as I said, they’re, they’re fundamentally very intertwined. You know, the, the attributes. You know, when you’re building a disruptive company, you have, you by design are looking for certain kind of attributes in people. You want people to challenge the status quo. They have to feel that they’re comfortable coming to work. And, you know, it’s an environment where you can debate, where you can challenge one another. It’s also an environment where you really want people to bring their true selves to work. I think one of the things that we do very well here at EQRx is we actually, and I haven’t heard this in a lot of other companies, to be honest, we don’t talk about culture fit, we talk about culture ad. And you know, when you think about culture fit, what tends to happen is you start to think about hiring and recruiting people that then feel they come into a company, they have to conform to a certain mode of, you know, or a certain culture, if you will. You start to get people who diverge to the middle and then you start to see a depletion and your sort of diversity. You wonder why, why is everybody acting the same? It’s sort of the antithesis to having a true diverse, you know, workplace. And I think, you know, we’ve recognized that actually if everybody just brings something great to the culture, it doesn’t have to be the same. It’s just going to add our culture and enhance our culture. And the last thing I’ll say on this, and I, you know, as I said, Ed will probably add some perspective as well from when, you know, the earlier days at EQRx. You know, the number one question that I get asked literally almost every time I interview a candidate is how do you intend to preserve the culture as you grow? Right. I mean, you know, six months ago we were 50 people. Now we’re a bit over 100 people. In a year we’re going to be, you know, probably twice the size of that. And I think a lot of people have had this experience of going to small companies and, and sort of seeing the culture drift away from what it was intended to be. And I think this notion of culture add will be one of the things that really helps us be successful because it’s not about everybody converging, as I said, to the middle. It’s about what every single additional hire we make brings to the organization. And so we always, we know culture will evolve, but I think it’s going to help our culture evolve again very much in line with what our business model is, but in a really, really Positive way. So I don’t worry as much about, oh, the culture is going to change because it’s not this static culture of everybody bringing the same things to the table. It is this very dynamic culture of everybody bringing the right things to the table in line with our business strategy and our, and our focus.
Ed Nathanson [00:14:14]:
So first of all, you know, I don’t know how I follow that, but I will say this is that, you know, one of the things that from my perspective coming in and doing what I did before joining EQRx was I literally got to go to Fortune 100 companies, small startups and all these different verticals and including bio and pharma and all places in between. And you know, I got to see what culture and values really meant. And this is by no means a knock on any of them, but if I were to ever join a company, and I remember when I was being recruited at qrx, I had this line in the sand of like, I will never join a company that believes in the common words on a wall, so to speak, or on a coffee mug where the leadership goes up to the Mount Sinai, comes down with their commandments of what the culture will be, and then everyone kind of gets in line and obeys. That’s so common. And honestly, I think it’s a bunch of bs. And one of the things that from the very beginning at EQRx was that we got the chance to build the company we’ve always wanted to be a part of, right from the very beginning. And when you think about that and the such, the purpose driven mission, it’s not just, you know, every bio pharma company is doing something purposeful, right, and helping people. But when you look at what we’re doing on top of that with the, with the social good element, it really does, you know, align itself to a lot of things that are not common in the pharma industry. And so we coined a term, buq. It’s a hashtag, but it’s much more than a marketing hashtag or recruitment campaign we use. It’s how we hire, right? We literally include get to know you questions that people probably never being asked on interviews because we don’t want to know them. We say that candidates coming in, we send them come as QR notes saying, we don’t care what you’re wearing, we don’t care if your dogs are barking or, or your kids are playing in the background. We want to meet you, we don’t want to meet your wardrobe. Right? And it really is something that even in our scorecards we go through, we ask the very question, is this person a culture? Add, as Rona was saying to our company, we’ve even taken a step further where we tried to attract those people who are. Let me take a step back. Anyone who’s ever done anything in business is not a conformer. Right? We’re not looking for people to conform and change who they are the second they walk through our doors, virtual or in person. Just the opposite. For us to do something as disruptive that we need, we need people who are going to feel it, you know, not emboldened, but have the ability to speak. Not just emboldened, I should say feel emboldened, but as well as the ability to speak and be heard. Because if we’re going to do anything disruptive, we need different thoughts, we need different perspectives, we need those things. And so not just the bud Q. We’ve taken it even further with a superpowers quiz. That we do this again in line with BUAQ is reaching out to the people to say that, look, we think each individual has their own superpower that we want you to bring with us and how you identify it out there, Right? And as you think about what we’re doing, what’s most important for our success, you know, how do you measure some of the intangibles? And so we did this fun quiz on our website that allows them to align with our missions, their personal missions, our mission, and get a glimpse into, like for us, their professional and individual motivations. The purpose of this is not to say what’s right or wrong for us, but rather to stage how we think about the contributions that people bring to us as individuals. Right. There’s no wrong answers, but there’s four different types of personalities. And this for the candidate allows them to think about not just I’m applying for a job, but the why they’re applying and how it aligns to such a unique thing and emboldening them to bring those unique personalities. From the very outset of attraction, continuing through interview process, through hire, through onboarding, it’s something that, you know, from the very beginning, we thought really deeply about.
Matt Alder [00:18:13]:
Digging into that a bit deeper from an employer, brand and a recruitment, marketing perspective, talk us through the strategy that you had to get this messaging out there to find the talent that you need during such a difficult, a challenging period of time.
Ed Nathanson [00:18:28]:
So again, I think we’re not your regular company, and that’s not to besmirch or talk bad about any other pharma, but our very business model, our Very DNA is different. It’s a disruptive model. It’s one that, you know, will have significant impact on this industry as a whole. And so we knew from the very beginning it takes a special kind of person and, and to, to want to join that mission. And so what we wanted to do was not try to be anything and everything to everybody, which is, if you look at most pharma, again, it’s a very regulated industry. I get it, is what a lot of them do. We really wanted to own who we are. You know, I think I’ve said this, you know, in the past, but I love Game of Thrones. And there’s a quote from Tyrion in very first episode where he says, wear what you are like armor. That way the world can never hurt you. And I believe the best brands do that. So we went out into the world and said, this is who we are. You know, we’re fun, we’re different, we’re bold. You know, we even in our job descriptions literally say, are you bold enough? In every job description we do, we don’t talk about requirements. We call them your superpowers. We talk about individuals. We’re sharing their purpose, their mission. And we’re also putting ourselves out there in a very talent, brand way. You know, my partner in crime on the corporate communication side and I, from the very beginning, when you’re so early, you can’t talk about some of the specific science or business that we would love to talk about or even financing that’s either in the pipeline or existing. But what we could talk about was our people. And so from the outset, one of the things that was a big advantage for us is that we were able to share a lot of individual stories here, align them with their superpowers, align them with the BUQ message, with the purpose driven mission about what we’re trying to do, you know, put a little rock and roll in an industry that’s more classic music, right? Classical music. And I think it’s worked really, really well for us. On top of that, we really are kind of taking an audience who’s joined us from pharma, big or small, that’s not used to being, you know, emboldened to be on platforms like social media to have their own voice. You know, I always, it’s like, you know, it’s like bringing in, you know, a kitten who’s been in a bad home to a loving home, right? It’s like, you know, oh, you’re saying, I can do this, you sure it’s okay? It’s okay. And we do, we encourage it, we promote it. And it’s helped us. It’s helped us grow organically, it’s helped us grow in terms of online review sites, it’s helped us grow in terms of presence of reach. We train every employee who comes on about interviewing about social media in Week 1, and we continue to talk about it as a company. All of this in line with executive leadership that just understands the importance of brand from the very outset and how critical it is to help us attract people to us has been unbelievable, I’m very proud to say. We haven’t used a single employment agency to staff our team. We’ve been able to do it. Our website is getting unbelievable traffic, which to me is the ultimate metric. We’re getting anywhere from 30 to 40,000 views a month for an average of 30 jobs that we get. Our social growing has grown hundreds of percent and thousands of percent in some cases. And we have getting people who are buying into the brand. We get people signing off as warriors, champions, dreamers, telling us how much they love the quiz, telling us how much our message resonates with them. That’s what matters and that’s what’s been so exciting.
Rona Anhalt [00:22:09]:
People see the authenticity that gets carried through in the interview process. Right. First of all, we don’t pretend that we’re something that we’re not. Right? I mean, we tell candidates this is not for the faint of heart, right? You know, it’s a startup environment. You got to roll up your sleeves, you got to get stuff done. We have a phrase that we use internally, gsd, you know, so we want to be honest about who we are because you want people to self select in or out, and I think they do by design, right? They see who we are up front based on how we’ve positioned ourselves, you know, on social media, LinkedIn, through the recruitment process, on our career site. But it gets very, you know, kind of specifically carried through in the interview process. I mean, this notion that, you know, Ed talked about kind of getting these, you know, warriors, you know, or the wounded kitten, actually, I think is what you described. Right. You know, you’re not. We’re a very regulated industry. I, you know, my very beginning conversations at EQRx, when I was going through the interview process, it was so fundamentally different. So I can speak from my own experience than any process. And I, I’ve spoken to a lot of companies in this space. You know, I, that’s, you know, what you do. Particularly as I came from a company that was acquired, I knew that I was looked, I was in the market looking and wanted, you know, to do these comparisons between the opportunities out there for myself. And I was so taken by the, the authenticity of this notion that you’re going to get to come here and do things in an unconstrained way. So the rules that applied, you know, in the world that I came from were. And this is the same experience that all of our candidates have as they go through, through the interview process. Like we ask people, think about the constraints that you had. If you could do things in an unconstrained way, how would you do your job differently? And I think you get this, people, it may scare some people away. And that’s okay because what we want at the end of the day is the people who are like 100%, you know, in line with that kind of a mindset. Again, not for the faint of heart. We’re asking people to take the shackles off of their kind of former work environments and go all in with us on this mission. But what strikes me is that I think we’re really good internally because of the training, you know, the interview training and the social media training and a lot of the work that Ed and his team are doing with our employee base as a whole. We’re very in sync in these interview processes. So I am very confident that when I interview a candidate, they haven’t heard something different from another, from another interviewer. And that’s come back to us sort of in spades. We hear that time and time again. Wow, your team is really all saying the same thing. You’re all really passionate about the mission you’re on. And I think that again, it comes back to the culture that we’ve been able to successfully weave through in the hires that we made. But it does carry forward to make sure that those people that were, you know, coming through the recruitment process for future roles are hearing very much the same thing and then self selecting accordingly.
Matt Alder [00:25:30]:
Obviously, Brandon and culture are very important to you and you’ve talked about the quality of the interview process there. Tell us a bit more about the overall candidate experience. What are your objectives? What kind of a candidate experience are you trying to deliver?
Ed Nathanson [00:25:46]:
So I believe fundamentally, Rona believes, fundamentally, EQRX believes at its core that the candidate experience is the ultimate differentiator. It not only is the, is the thing that will, you know, if all things being equal, will make someone choose one place over the other, but it’s also, you know, kind of the true to the DNA of who we are and who we aspire to be, which is we want to treat people with the absolute respect and dignity that we would expect to receive ourselves. And it’s something very fundamental. You know, I, we always talk about that the second any higher becomes a transaction is the second we’ve lost our way. These are not transactions. I always say that outside of marriage and children, there’s no more emotional, no more impactful decision in someone’s life than what you do. It’s part of literally how we identify in society. First or second question asking you meet somebody is what do you do? Where do you do it? So for us, we believe in over communication, over transparency. The recruiting team, our coordinators, we send out so much information throughout the process that there is, and again, everything from things about, like the cold Cummings QR piece we talked about, to interviews, to personal messages, video messages from people like Rona, from people like our president, Melanie Nalacheri. They, each individual gets these right? They’re getting. We build in even small little things like bio breaks on zooms, like the things that people just don’t think about. You know, we’re telling people, you know, we promise fast Turnaround. We have SLAs with our candidates on quick feedback. We’ve implemented parts on the recruiting team where there’s two days a week where they’re dedicated to giving feedback and they stop what they’re doing just to make sure that they’re checking back with candidates. But beyond that, we’re also very transparent in that we survey every person we talk to. Now, not everyone is applying, but every person that we either hire or that we get our silver and bronze medalists, and we go over that as a team at least once a quarter, sometimes more. And we go through that feedback to learn what we can do, what we can do better, what we aren’t doing. And these are things that are such a hyper focus for us to. As Rona said, the thing that really gives us pleasure is to hear the consistency of the experience. And then again, at the base core of it all is that we’re treating people with respect and dignity and, and, and with the urgence and importance of how important we see their work. To us, you know, it’s the candidate experience is something that, you know, especially in bio, more than any other industry I’ve ever been a part of, we live in such a small world. One bad experience could lead to a ripple 10 times the effect that we just don’t want to have, obviously, but can’t afford to have as a new company. And so we really Work incredibly hard both at consistency and about sincerity. And that is something that even as we’ve grown in volume and size and more recs become available, that is something that is our team’s line in the sand that we will not falter on. We’d rather give up speed, you know, than that and we can think we can do both. But at the end of the day, that is a non negotiable for us.
Matt Alder [00:29:06]:
So final question. You’ve obviously achieved a huge amount from a talent acquisition and people perspective in the last 12 months. What’s next? What’s your focus for the next 12 months?
Rona Anhalt [00:29:18]:
There’s not one right answer for that. I mean, you know, as a startup we’re, I guess out of that first phase. People know who we are very much so. We actually just very recently announced a very, you know, our second round of fundraising which was quite sizable, you know, relative probably to any industry, but certainly, you know, on the cusp of being one of the larger raises in our industry. So it’s definitely raised our visibility in the marketplace. So now people know who we are more so than they did a year ago. And we have to leverage things like that because we do. We have to grow the organization pretty remarkably this year in order to achieve some of our very ambitious goals. But we have to grow it in a smart way. And again, you know, it’s less about numbers than making sure that we get the right people into the organization. I think we all have sort of held hands together on this as a leadership team and said, you know, getting the wrong people, you know, and we all know we’ve all been in those, we’ve all had those experiences, you know, one or two of the wrong people can really set an organization back in a very, very significant way. And you know, that’s why taking the care to have the right conversations, have, making sure, sure that the right people are having the right conversations and doing the assessment. And it’s a time, you know, it is a time consuming process, but it’s such a critical part of getting the right people through the door. I mean, the other piece too is, you know, one of the industries that has not had any real significant setbacks during the pandemic has been the healthcare and life sciences industry. So we continue to be in a very competitive environment for talent. But I think we have some real advantages in terms of how we’ve set ourselves up in this first year around getting the brand out, making sure that people know who we are in a very authentic way and, and putting news out there. That has piqued a lot of people’s interest. You know, a year ago, there was very little out on our website about who we are, who we were, you know, what our portfolio looked like. We’re still a private company, so we still don’t have to disclose certain things, but there’s certainly more information about us out there now. So, you know, I think that that gives us some, you know, pretty good traction in. In terms of. In terms of attracting the right people. I. I suspect we just have to continue. Continue to do more of the same, but at a, you know, at a pace that is probably somewhat heavier than last year, because our hiring targets are significant. And just the business in general, you know, we’ve been so successful in year one, we’ve got to be more successful in year two.
Ed Nathanson [00:32:18]:
I would just add to that that, you know, put the foot down even more on the gas. We’ve got big goals, big ambition, and a lot, you know, of people, of great people that we’re looking to bring to us. And we know, you know, there’s lots of great companies out there. We think, you know, we have a very unique story, a very unique mission, a very disruptive mission. And the key is attracting those kind of people to us. The people that say, you know, yeah, this is awesome, instead of, whoa, that sounds crazy, right? And those are the people that are going to help us do some really meaningful things. And, you know, the way I see it, and I started saying, this is, you know, the most exciting part of my career journey so far, is that the sense of pride I have in working for an organization. Not only that, you know, the DNA of everything we’ve just talked about and the difference and how, you know, it’s not the way it’s always been done, but being part of a company which. Whose mission is to make medicine affordable for patients who need it around the world, man, you know, if I were to write the script of a company that I was working at, I couldn’t have written it better. And so, you know, that’s something that, you know, we also really just need to get the message out again to the right people, to the right audiences that are excited about a mission like that.
Matt Alder [00:33:38]:
Rona and Ed, thank you very much for talking to me.
Ed Nathanson [00:33:41]:
Our pleasure. Thank you for having us.
Rona Anhalt [00:33:43]:
Thank you so much. This was great.
Matt Alder [00:33:45]:
My thanks to Rona and Ed. You can subscribe to this podcast in Apple Podcasts on Spotify or via your podcasting app of choice. Please also follow us on Instagram. You can find the show by searching for Recruiting Future. You can search through all of the past episodes@recruitingfuture.com on that site. You can also subscribe to the mailing list to get the inside track about everything that’s coming up on the show. Thanks very much for listening. I’ll be back next time and I hope you’ll join me.
