The future of work is a popular topic on this podcast, and it is fair to say there are many differing expert views on what it might look like. Sometimes though it is essential to dig deeper than opinion and theory and explore the actual attitudes that will shape what work will be like in the future.
I recently worked with my long time collaborator Mervyn Dinnen and experience research professional Nick Price to produce a report for the brilliant team at Kelly Services that explores the attitudes of 14,000 job seekers to the future of work. To discuss the findings with me, my guest on the show this week is Richard Bradley who is Kelly Services’ Managing Director for the UK and Ireland.
In the interview we discuss:
• The importance of employee experience
• Job seeking research preferences
• What makes for inspirational leadership
• The human workplace
• Current levels of employee engagement
• Alternative ways of working
You can download a free copy of the report by clicking on this link.
Subscribe to this podcast in Apple Podcasts
Transcript:
Matt Alder [00:00:00]:
Support for this podcast comes from Smart Recruiters, the hiring success company Smart Recruiters is an enterprise grade talent acquisition suite designed for hiring success. Move beyond applicant tracking with a modern platform that provides everything you need to attract, select and hire the best talent. From candidate relationship management, sourcing and recruitment marketing to screening, selection and offer management experience. A talent acquisition suite with a user experience that candidates, hiring managers and recruiters all love. Companies from Kelly Services to Visa to Bosch leverage Smart recruiters to achieve hiring success and expand their business. Visit smart recruiters@www.smartrecruiters.com to find out why companies across the globe consider them the number one ATS replacement.
Matt Alder [00:01:09]:
Hi everyone, this is Matt Alder. Welcome to episode 149 of the Recruiting Future podcast. The future of work is a popular topic on this show and it’s fair to say that there are lots of different expert views on it. Sometimes though, it’s important to dig deeper than opinions and theories and explore the attitudes that will actually shape the future of work. I recently worked with my long term collaborator Mervyn Dynan alongside research professional Nick Price to produce a report for the brilliant team at Kelly Services that does just this to discuss the findings with me. I’m delighted to welcome Richard Bradley, who’s Kelly Services Managing Director for UK and Ireland, to the show. Hi Richard and welcome to the podcast.
Richard Bradley [00:02:05]:
Hi Matt, good to be here.
Matt Alder [00:02:06]:
So could you just introduce yourself and tell everyone what you do?
Richard Bradley [00:02:10]:
Matt, that’s kind. My name is Richard Bradley. I’ve been in the recruitment industry in one size or shape for about the last 24, 25 years. I’m currently the UK and Ireland managing Director for Kelly Services and for those of you that know Kelly Services, you probably think of us as a traditional business that looks at temporary and contract staffing in the blue collar space. We’re going through rather large transformation and actually are the seventh largest player globally in life sciences and going through quite a large transformation which was what made Kelly a very exciting place to join.
Matt Alder [00:02:53]:
So what we’re going to talk about is the future of work, obviously something that’s been covered from lots of different angles before. Now we’re talking about it because Kelly have a new report out which I’ll talk about in a little bit, but before I do, I just wanted to ask you why do you think it’s important that we keep talking about the future of work?
Richard Bradley [00:03:15]:
You know Matt, I think the future of work is really important. We’re definitely living in the most challenging times of our lives. We’re living through a complete, complete and utter new age of instability. You know, it’s never been so, you know, so chaotic out there. And the speed which we live our lives means we’re constantly having to adapt and change. And technology today is making everything even faster. I think if you look at the world, it’s getting smaller, our cities are getting larger and the people that inhabit them are more diverse. And as we all know, people are what make good businesses. And as a result, you know, if you look at the way of work and how it’s changed in 2018, in the top 10 in demand jobs didn’t exist in 2000. So I do think we’ve got to look and anticipate about what the future holds. And I think it’s personally really fascinating and a great time to be in the industry.
Matt Alder [00:04:14]:
Absolutely. I couldn’t agree with you more. So just to talk a little bit more about the report that Kelly Services have produced now, I’m actually very familiar with this report because I actually co wrote it. I co wrote it with my long term collaborator, Mervyn Dinon, and we work with Kelly Services to look at what people think, what people really think about the future of work. So the report is based on some really robust research. We surveyed 14,000 job seekers across 10 different countries and we wanted to move away from the standard 10 to 20 year predictions about the future of work and the world being ruled by robots. You know, lots of interesting discussions that are out there, but we really wanted to look at what’s important to people right now in terms of how their jobs are changing and what their key topics of interest are going to be when it comes to work for the next two to three years. So very much looking at the future, but perhaps from a slightly different lens from some of the other content that’s out there. So, Richard, having had the chance to read the report, what stands out for you?
Richard Bradley [00:05:22]:
I think I’d agree with you in the fact I think it covers a lot of additional things and I think a lot of those come out in the report. But I think what really struck me were some of the areas that we were talking about. The whole piece around employee experience. There’s a lot of talk at the moment about candidates as consumers, but I think it’s a bit more integrated than that. And I think there’s certainly a lot of stuff coming out of the report that suggests that that is absolutely key. The Other thing that I thought was really interesting was looking at the fact that a lot of stuff that was being talked about around leadership and the need for certain characteristics for leadership. And what I found really interesting was the fact that the importance of leader plays really does develop and change depending in some of the different geographical locations you’re based in. So from my perspective, I thought that was, that was really interesting.
Matt Alder [00:06:26]:
So we divided the report into three sections because we were, we were covering a lot of ground. The first one’s called the Human Workplace and we’ll talk about that. We’ll talk about that a bit more in a second. The second one is Inspirational leadership and the third is Alternative ways of Working. And these are really the core themes we noticed coming, coming back from the research. So to talk about them briefly in turn, the Human Workplace, really I think the most interesting aspect that came out of this for me was really what you’d already talked about, Richard, in terms of the critical importance of the employee experience. And it was a key factor in how people decided which employer they wanted to work for and how long they actually stayed in the recruitment process and whether they ultimately accepted the job. So that was pretty interesting for me because it’s something I’ve always had a hunch is very, very important. And it was really interesting to actually see the data on it.
Richard Bradley [00:07:25]:
Yeah, I agree, I agree. I think some of the data that came out there was interesting. I think makes good reading.
Matt Alder [00:07:31]:
And I think the other aspect of the Human Workplace section was where people actually got their information from during the recruitment process. So a real focus on the amount of information that was available on companies that they could find and, and also a real importance, really importance attached to online reviews. Is that something you’re seeing on a day to day basis, Richard?
Richard Bradley [00:07:56]:
Absolutely, absolutely. Matt. I think it’s really interesting to see that the amount of information that is out there for people to understand organizations today, both around what they do, but a lot of what we’re seeing is it’s more about what they stand for, what’s important to them, what is it about them? In the US they use the expression noble purpose and we’re seeing a lot of that. What does it really mean to work for this organization? What are you giving back? What’s the general view of that? I think therefore what you’re finding is all of the traditional channels where you might look at a corporate website or you might find people looking at information on review sites around people’s products. You’ve got the likes of Glassdoor and lots of Other review sites coming up where people are talking about is the wrapper, in reality, the truth of the product you’re eating. And there needs to be a real understanding that you can’t just pray what you want people to think you are. You need to have a lot more honesty around. You know, this is where we are today and where we’re trying to get to tomorrow. And we’re seeing that level of, that level of transparency really being needed. And, you know, I think the report talks about, you know, people are getting information on jobs now from about 14 to 16 different sources. And that’s just phenomenal. I mean, it’s just there’s so much information out there about not just individual, you know, not individual companies, but individuals that you might be meeting with, such as LinkedIn. So you get to really get an opportunity to explore before you even start to engage with an organization about whether it’s right for you or not.
Matt Alder [00:09:47]:
And I think the other thing in this section for me was around employee engagement, because it’s a well known conference truism that the majority of people are not engaged in their job. And actually this survey shows completely the opposite, that there were really high levels of employee engagement out across Europe. It’s. Is that something that surprised you as well?
Richard Bradley [00:10:08]:
Yeah, I think it does. You know, I think certainly in the UK we always try to look for reasons why things aren’t working. I think that’s just a naturalism of us as a nationality. But I was really surprised to see just genuinely that it doesn’t take an awful lot to get engagement of people. Right. And as a whole, I think people are probably more engaged than perhaps we give them credit for. And was really interesting to see that come out through the report.
Matt Alder [00:10:37]:
Now, the second section, which is something you’ve already alluded to, is inspirational leadership. And again, some really interesting things here. First of all, the real importance of leadership and what people want from it, and a real high score for high focus on accountability and honesty. Does that reflect what you thought it would look like?
Richard Bradley [00:11:01]:
It does. But again, I think there were some interesting points that came out of it. I mean, from a personal perspective, leadership’s about instilling confidence, and it’s then about being able to help develop and grow and empower the people around you. That for me, in its most functional level, is what leadership is about. But what came out in the report was, yeah, that’s great. But they also really want to see leadership take accountability. You know, that humility about, you know what, I tried something and I got it. Wrong coming from the leadership team is incredibly powerful. And that level of honesty, I think that some of the stuff that creates some of that stickiness and, you know, it’s what I call believability. You know, you’re here, you’re not just sat there with some spreadsheets. You’re kind of really taking leadership to the forefront. And I think that from the very top of the organization down into middle management, where people are just being a bit more human and taking that little bit of accountability for what they do is absolutely proving good steads. And that came out loud and clear on the report.
Matt Alder [00:12:10]:
And I think the other thing was the importance of training and development. And there’s a real desire, it seems, for people to embrace new ways of working and learn new skills, particularly those coming out of digital transformation initiatives. Now, that’s pretty crucial, isn’t it, to the future of people’s careers?
Richard Bradley [00:12:28]:
Yeah, it is. But I think what’s really interesting, Matt, is it’s always been one of the first things that tends to get. Get chipped in a certain. But in somebody’s budget, when times are a bit tight with an organization and you’re not, you don’t find that investment. And you know what I think was also quite interesting is it was. It wasn’t just about learning and development for people within their own organization, but it was also being given the opportunity to expand stuff in their personal life because, you know, that blurring line between work and home life is getting more and more important. And if somebody’s learning and developing at work, great. If they’re also learning and development at home, it makes a fuller, happier individual. And that also came through in the report, which again, I hadn’t really looked at it in that way. And I think. I think it’s an interesting way of looking at it. And, you know, investment in that learning and development culture for people is very important for us at Kelly. And I think it’s something that we’re starting to see more and more organizations put probably more credence to than they have done in previous years.
Matt Alder [00:13:30]:
Absolutely. And I think that takes us on very nicely to the final section of the report, which we called Alternative Ways of Working, which is essentially about homeworking, remote working. And there was a lot in there about work life balance and the border between the two. I think the thing that struck me of most as most interesting about this is, you know, all the talk you hear about everyone wanting to work remotely and everyone wanting to work at home, that isn’t the reality that came through in the report, is it?
Richard Bradley [00:14:01]:
No. I have to say I was genuinely really surprised about that. But then when I gave it a bit more detailed thought and think, I think of my own personal situation with the family. I do love to be able to have the opportunity to work from home. Home, but would I want to do it 100% of the time? The answer to that is no. You know, there was a lot of talk about, you know, that interacting with colleagues, the water cooler moments are really valued in an organization. And I think some of the stuff that came out around sort of the ways of working, it was slightly, slightly odd things like perhaps not having to wear a suit to work is actually as important as being able to give somebody the opportunity for flexible working. And flexible working doesn’t necessarily mean homeworking. It just means I’ve got a commitment, can I come in a little bit later and leave a bit later? And it was more around flexibility of work and accepting that sometimes life gets in the way rather than necessarily the whole concept of being able to work at an alternative location. That came through really loudly in that report. And I thought that was really interesting.
Matt Alder [00:15:12]:
Yeah, absolutely. There was, there was only a small minority of people who wanted to work from home or a remote location all of the time, but a large majority wanted that flexibility. And again, it was interesting that one of the biggest drivers of this was the importance that people put on face to face interactions with colleagues. And it shows that technology isn’t always the panacea that we think it is. And humans talking to humans is still absolutely critical. So reflecting on the whole thing, a couple of questions in one, really, what’s your biggest takeaway from reading the report and what are you most excited about in terms of the future of work?
Richard Bradley [00:15:52]:
Two great questions, Matt. I think that the first one, what’s the biggest takeaway? Is that actually there are a few very simple things that people can do to have a massive impact on the people that they work alongside and work for them. So, you know, I do ask everybody to take the time it takes to read the report and look at, you know, some of the subtle changes that you can make, I think can have a significant difference on your organization. And I think that was, that was what came away loud and clear from that report for me. In your second question question, what am I most asked about the future? I think that’s a, that’s a really difficult question to answer because there’s just so much the world of work is changing, you know, what we’re doing, how we’re engaging with it. What I’m really excited about is that at no time do I think there’s been this level of opportunity for people to really shape the future. And work is no longer a constraint where you do what you do in a particular box, but you actually have the opportunity to break down some of the traditional structures in work and have the opportunity to influence and shape businesses. And I think that’s really, really exciting. So I’m certainly looking forward to the future.
Matt Alder [00:17:21]:
Richard, thank you very much for speaking to me.
Richard Bradley [00:17:23]:
Matt, it’s been an absolute pleasure and I have to say thank you very much for your contribution to the report. I think it’s a really interesting and thought provoking piece of work.
Matt Alder [00:17:33]:
My thanks to Richard Bradley and also my thanks to the marketing team at Kelly Services for working with us on this project. I will put a link to the white paper in the Show Notes so you can follow that and download it to read it for yourselves. You can subscribe to this podcast in Apple Podcasts or via your podcasting app of choice. The show also has its own dedicated app, which you can find by searching for a recruiting future in your App Store. If you’re a Spotify user, you can also find the show there. You can find all the past episodes@www.rfpodcast.com on that site. You can also subscribe to the mailing list and find out more about Working with Me. And that’s the site where you’ll find the show notes with a link to the white paper. Thanks very much for listening. I’ll be back next week and I hope you’ll join me.
