Recruiting Future is a podcast that helps Talent Acquisition teams drive measurable impact by developing their strategic capability in Foresight, Influence, Talent, and Technology.
This episode is about Influence.
The importance of data is universally recognized in TA, but the real opportunity lies in going beyond basic metrics and using data to shape business strategy. Forward-thinking TA leaders are moving beyond operational dashboards to connect hiring decisions with business outcomes like revenue generation and team performance. This shift requires not just better metrics but a fundamental change in how we communicate value to the organization. The challenge is that many teams remain stuck at the operational level, measuring activity rather than impact.
So, how can you be more strategic about data and analytics?
My guest this week is Leandro Cartelli, founder of a staffing and recruiting agency specializing in Latin American talent. With nearly 20 years of experience working in recruiting and talent acquisition, Leandro brings deep insights into building data-driven TA functions. In our conversation, he shares his framework for evolving TA metrics through three maturity stages and explains how connecting recruiting data to business outcomes transforms organizational influence.
In the interview, we discuss:
• The most important data points for TA
• Connecting recruiting metrics to business goals
• The three maturity stages of TA metrics
• Building influence with data
• Latin American talent market dynamics
• Advice to companies recruiting across borders
• Neglecting the candidate experience
• The impact of AI on jobs and careers
• The future of the TA function
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00:00
Matt Alder
Data driven TA has become a bit of a buzzword over the last few years, but tracking metrics isn’t the same thing as driving decisions. The best TA leaders don’t just report numbers. They connect hiring outcomes to business objectives and transform how their organizations think about talent. So how are they building this influence? Keep listening to find out. Support for this podcast comes from smart recruiters. Are you looking to supercharge your hiring? Meet Winston Smart Recruiter’s AI Powered companion. I’ve had a demo of Winston. The capabilities are extremely powerful and it’s been crafted to elevate hiring to a whole new level. This AI sidekick goes beyond the usual assistant, handling all the time consuming admin work so you can focus on connecting with top talent and making better hiring decisions.
00:56
Matt Alder
From screening candidates to scheduling interviews, Winston manages it all with AI precision, keeping the hiring process fast, smart and effective. Head over to smartrecruiters.com and see how Winston can deliver superhuman results. Hi there. Welcome to episode number 717 of Recruiting Future with me, Matt Alder. Recruiting Future is a podcast that helps talent acquisition teams drive measurable impact by developing their strategic capability in foresight, influence, talent and technology. This episode is all about influence. The importance of data is universally recognized in talent acquisition, but the real opportunity lies in going past basic metrics and using data to shape business strategies. Forward thinking TA leaders are moving beyond operational dashboards to connect hiring decisions with business outcomes like revenue generation and team performance. This shift requires not just better metrics, but a fundamental change in how we communicate value in the organization.
02:29
Matt Alder
The challenge is that many teams remain stuck at the operational level, measuring activity rather than impact. So how can you be more strategic about data and analytics? My guest this week is Lean Cartelli, founder of a staffing and recruiting agency specializing in Latin American talent. With nearly 20 years working in recruiting and talent acquisition, Leanne brings deep insights into building data driven TA functions. In our conversation, he shares his framework for evolving TA metrics through three maturity stages and explains how connecting recruiting data to business outcomes transforms organizational influence. Hi Leanne and welcome to the podcast.
03:17
Leandro Cartelli
Hey Matt, how are you? Good to be here.
03:19
Matt Alder
I’m very good, thank you and it is a pleasure to have you on the show. Please could you introduce yourself and tell everyone what you do?
03:26
Leandro Cartelli
Yeah, absolutely. Well, I’m Lean Cartelli, based out of Argentina and originally from Argentina and I’ve been in talent acquisition for almost 20 years. Typically I say more than 15, but it’s closer to 20. And I think I’ve done almost everything. I’ve done TA for global companies such as Accenture, Regional Rules, Global Rules I work for in a pharma industry with Beringer Ingelheim leading TA in Latin America. And then a few years ago I moved to the staffing side, so the other side of the counter. And now I have my own staffing and recruiting agency. We’ve launched about a year ago and basically we focused on helping businesses primarily in the US and Canada to hire unstaffed remote talent in Latin America.
04:24
Matt Alder
Fantastic stuff. So why don’t we start there? I mean, tell us a little bit about the Latin American market for talent. What are the challenges that you see there and how does it compare to other regions that you’ve worked in and recruited in?
04:37
Leandro Cartelli
Yeah, absolutely. So I think we see some of the same challenges we see everywhere and some that are unique to the region. So first we definitely see a bit of a skill gap when it comes to some of the immersion techs like AI cloud. The region tends to be a bit behind the curve. So for those skills we find it more difficult in this region to find talent as you would in the US or Europe, for example, despite of the fact that there still is a bit of a demand and supply challenge for those type of profiles. So I would say that’s definitely a big challenge in the region. Not for your traditional tech profiles or other marketing and HR finance, but definitely for those emerging skills. The second I would say you typically find, depending on the countries, right?
05:38
Leandro Cartelli
If you don’t know where to go, you’re going to find some basic challenges like infrastructure, Internet connection or connectivity, English proficiency. So there are some countries where you find those maybe basic challenges. So you definitely need to know where to go to find the talent. And I, you know, that’s a big challenge. I typically see a lot of companies do, they don’t know the market or the region and so they go to any country, they think it’s the same and they hire someone and you know, that person has, you know, unstable Internet and that’s just, you know, you give that for granted, it’s basic but you know, in some countries it’s not. The other big thing I would say is, you know, there is, it’s definitely a candidate driven market. Right. And that’s happened over the last many years.
06:30
Leandro Cartelli
And I would say one of the biggest reasons is because we see a lot of near shoring and offshoring particularly from the U.S. of course, some of the main countries like Mexico, Colombia, Argentina, Brazil, they’re seeing such significant growth of nearshoring. And so you have local businesses and global businesses competing for talent here. And so the leverage has moved into the candidate side. And you also find some retention challenges connected to that because there’s such high demand and so much competition that people tend to move sometimes. So it’s very important to have the right retention strategies there. I think those are the main challenges as compared to other regions, I would say on the candidate side and the power being on their side.
07:22
Leandro Cartelli
We definitely see some ghosting here in Latam, but I think that’s a common trend we’ve seen, you know, in a lot of places. Unfortunately we do have, you know, I think US and Europe struggle more with extended time to hire, time to fuel, whereas in Latam you can move a lot faster. And then the third one, I would say maybe comparing to another region, maybe you know, Asia, India for example, there is larger town pools but they do have challenges that Latam doesn’t have, such as we have time zone alignment and a lot of cultural alignment. Whereas for India or some other countries in that region, you struggle with that.
08:05
Matt Alder
I suppose just to drill down a little bit there into the skills part of this. Is there a different availability of different skills in different countries? Are there any countries that are particularly good for any sort of particular in demand skills?
08:17
Leandro Cartelli
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So I would say for example, so for any, anything in tech, right. So let me just make it broad based tech. You should go to Argentina, Colombia, Brazil, Mexico as well, but a bit less. And then you know, for example, Brazil is really strong on cybersecurity. Cybersecurity, right. So there is those nuances. I typically, you know, when I advise, when it comes to tech market, I typically advise, you know, those three countries and I always share that there is when companies come to hire in Latin America, one of the biggest drivers is cost. Right. And so, you know, because the core of the conversations are based on that, you’re not going to find significant gaps when it comes to those skills, but you’re definitely going to find bigger gaps when it comes to the cost.
09:10
Leandro Cartelli
And so you’re, it might take a bit longer but you’re going to find the talent you need, you know, in Argentina, Colombia and Brazil, but it’s going to be more cost efficient in Colombia and Argentina for example. Then I would say, you know, the outside of tech, you know, again, the emerging skills, AI cloud, those are tough in any Single one of these markets, cybersecurity. I always talk about Brazil. And then outside of tech, for example, you have anything that’s marketing. You have, for example in Argentina, huge hub of marketing talent. There is certain areas of marketing, like growth, mobile performance that are typically harder to find in other countries, but you do find it a lot in Argentina.
10:02
Leandro Cartelli
And then I would say for anything that sales, BDR, SDRs, account executives and managers, you know, Argentina and Colombia are really strong, but especially Colombia, they have a huge pool, they spend a lot of outsourcing of sales and commercial functions there. And so you typically find, you know, a lot of good talent and especially strong in English. Right. They have really good language skills in Argentina as well. Brazil as well, Mexico as well. I think what sets Colombia sometimes to be the parties when it comes to sales, they have a closer accent to the US or they can make it sound more native. Whereas maybe there is amazing English skills in Argentina. But sometimes you can hear the accent maybe like you hear mine. And so when it comes to sales, people feel more comfortable with more of a native speaker in that sense.
11:02
Leandro Cartelli
So Colombia tends to be a bit stronger in that.
11:05
Matt Alder
So you’ve mentioned a few things that employers who were recruiting across borders into the Latam region should be aware of there. What other advice would you give to people who are looking to recruit across borders?
11:19
Leandro Cartelli
Yeah, I think there’s four or five things and for this one, Matt, I’ll try to keep it short and sweet to make sure that I give all these advice. So the first one is I would say invest in local intelligence. Right. So we talked about the difference in each country. Right. So make sure that you understand that. Right? The culture, the educational system, the compensation, understanding local, the region and local markets. It’s going to help understand where you need to go. I think that’s number one. I think connected to that, number two is maybe start with staffing. That’s going to make it easier to make the move. And then eventually as you learn about the market, understand the talent, you can make some longer term decisions and start hiring direct, but it’s a good way to start.
12:14
Leandro Cartelli
Then I would say prioritize time zone and language skills. That’s definitely going to boost productivity, it’s going to boost integration, it’s going to enable better collaboration. And so I definitely think that’s a priority when thinking about recruiting cross borders and offshoring and then the last two. I think a lot of times when companies think about offshoring or recruiting cross borders, there are many times thinking about, well, it’s going to be super cheap and super easy and just I’m going to save a lot of money, which yes, of course, but making sure that you do have a competitive compensation, that you offer benefits, that you consider that you’re not just saving money, but you’re giving people opportunities and ensure that those opportunities are really good.
13:12
Leandro Cartelli
It’s going to help you find the best talent and it’s going to have a really big impact to your business. And so just making sure that what you offer is competitive, especially in terms of the local market and that connects to having the local intelligence and then making sure that you offer upskilling opportunities, growth, that’s going to also help retain people because if not you’re going to hire someone cross borders or going to leave after six months or 12 months, you’re going to have a big problem there because of course it’s a big investment in many senses.
13:48
Leandro Cartelli
And so making sure that you give those opportunities to talent, even if it’s cross borders and invest integrating them in the organization and making sure that they feel part of your company, that’s going to have a huge impact in their performance and their tenure and the value they add. And so I think they’re just part of the organization as much as anyone, only that they’re sitting somewhere else and you know, and having that understanding and making that investment is going to have a big impact in the results that you have.
14:21
Matt Alder
You mentioned that it’s very much a candidate market. One of the things that consistently seems to be an issue in every country at the moment is the quality of candidate experience. Why do you think the candidate experience gets neglected so often?
14:36
Leandro Cartelli
It’s crazy, right? And I, I still, to be honest, we, I feel as an industry, we’ve been talking about this for so many years and it’s still a. But I believe there’s a couple of things that we’ve seen consistently over the last many years and that hasn’t changed. I think there’s probably three or four things that are the main drivers for this one. I think T8 teams got used to, unfortunately to operate with lack of the right resources or bandwidth. Right. Recruiters tend to be stretched super thin, manage a super high volume of requisitions. We typically see that and we saw that during and after the pandemic. When you see organizations move to challenging times, typically you see a freeze in hiring or even decreasing volume. The first thing that is done is they shrink talent teams.
15:44
Leandro Cartelli
And then when you see demand spike, they need to rehire and so those cycles tend to hurt TA teams a lot. And you never have the right capabilities. And even through those process then organizations try to capture efficiencies and optimization, which is great. But then with limited resources when it comes to not only bandwidth of recruiters and the scale of teams, but also, you know, what you invest in terms of the technology to support them, in terms of the employer brand, which we know it’s going to impact directly their ability to attract talent. Then that tends to cascade to a bad experience for candidates because you have a recruiter that has to manage 20 regs, so many candidates in each reg, 10, 20, whatever candidates, a huge flow of applications, the business pushing and pressing and they just can’t get around that. Right.
16:40
Leandro Cartelli
And so I think one big part is, you know, they done, you know, all of our talent action teams, you know, for the most part they don’t have, you know, they’re not giving the right resources or many times, you know, they don’t have the right skill and structure to be able to deliver a good candid experience. The second, I think it’s always, you know, process related. So a lot of times processes are inefficient for many reasons. Right. I think many times TA teams are so involved in delivery that they don’t take a post to think strategically about how their processes are designed. And so they’re not really fit for purpose. Either too many stages or the ATS not really designed to be fit for that process. The business many times not educated. And this goes to the third point.
17:34
Leandro Cartelli
I think many times it’s not ta, but it’s really the business, the organization, the hiring managers, they don’t provide detailed feedback. They’re late with their responses and so they might respond for a good candidate or what they think it’s a good candidate, a good feed. But then for the rest, maybe they don’t provide feedback or maybe the feedback is this person is not a freedom and why, right? What do we tell this person that just went through three interviews and a deep assessment and I think that’s a big piece. I think a lot of times recruiters and talent teams just don’t have the support and don’t get what they need to the business. And I think it’s a bit on the business, but it’s also a bit on us. Right.
18:20
Leandro Cartelli
We need to educate them, we need to invest the time and we need leadership, sponsorship to make that happen. Right. And many times also it’s, you know, for us as a function, we struggle in communicating appropriately to the business, the impact that they have. And you know, we just, you know, as an industry, we need to start talking, you know, talk business language. Right. Don’t talk talent language. And you know, just explain that, you know, how for example, the, you know, the candid experience, it’s going to impact whether, you know, maybe someone continues to buy your products or not or the quality of the hire, that’s going to translate into performance and that high revenue.
18:58
Leandro Cartelli
And so I think some of those conversations we’re not having and so we’re not really getting what we need from the business which then translates of course into a bad kind of experience because we, you know, for example, we don’t have the feedback. Right. And that’s awful for a candidate that just went through, you know, four or five, six hours of a process and they don’t know why they’re not moving forward.
19:18
Matt Alder
Yeah, 100%. And you kind of bring up some interesting points there. So as we know, TA teams are being squeezed in terms of results, resources, but you know, at the same time they’re not necessarily getting the buy in and support that they need. And the function is very much changing with technology and all those kind of things. So one of the sort of key parts of this is data in terms of what TA teams look at, how they measure their success, how they communicate that to the rest of the business. You’ve obviously worked in lots of different sort of facets of recruiting and ta. What do you think the most fundamental data points are that every TA team should be tracking?
19:59
Leandro Cartelli
And that’s, that has a huge impact. I’ve always considered myself a very data driven person and I think, you know, I’ve always tried to translate that into data driven culture for the teams that I’ve been part of and I had the privilege to lead. And it’s funny because every time I’ve shown an organization it’s many times it’s been a transformation stages. So basically, you know, as an example, I show in Pedidoxia, which is your sort of doordash in Latin America, hyper growth, when I showed they didn’t have someone leading ta, right. That role did not exist in the company. There were 2,000 people company and they didn’t have anyone looking after TA and thinking about it strategically. And the challenge was to grow the company to a new country and you know, triple the headcount, which we did. Right.
20:49
Leandro Cartelli
But, and the reason why I showed this example is one of the first things I did when I joined is I asked for the metrics data, just show me the dashboards. And I remember receiving 20 different sheets with different data points measured differently. And that wasn’t the first time that happened to me. And I think many times what I see in organizations is I typically think about data for TA in sort of three different maturity levels or stages. First one is more sort of operational and baseline metrics, sort of your day to day metrics that every TA team needs to track that really connect or relate to the process. Right. How, you know, how efficient it is, how it’s operating. And so think your time to hire and time to fill.
21:38
Leandro Cartelli
You know, sources offer acceptance rates, roles per recruiter, everything that talks to about how you know, how you’re operating your function. Right. And I think for the most part this is where 90% of TA teams and organizations are at. Right. The next one to me, it’s sort of a more advanced metrics level where you start connecting the dots of the different data points to gain deeper insights and so not just measuring your time to hire, but understand what drives it. Right. And correlating metrics. And so for example, you look at your time to hire per source and your quality of hire by source or recruiter, the conversion rate at each stage and who owns that stage, recruiter productivity at this stage. Sometimes I’ve had this argument with some people in the industry. You know, candidate experience, onboarding satisfaction.
22:41
Leandro Cartelli
When it’s part of, you know, the ta, which in some organizations is, in others, it’s not hiring manager experience. Those are metrics that, you know, some would say it’s on the first one, right. It’s on operational. I think it tends to be, you know, on this one because it goes a layer deeper than just how you operate and execute. But it really gives you insights on what you’re achieving with that. But you know, it could be here or there, but it’s definitely part of these, you know, these first two stages and then I think the last one, this is where, you know, sort of the more impact and strategic metrics and this is where it connects to the previous question and conversation were having around how we should talk with the business. Right.
23:27
Leandro Cartelli
And so this is where we start connecting the, you know, recruiting and transaction metrics with the broader talent journey and also with business impact. And so we can talk about the candidate experience and how that impacts engagement, tenure, performance. And then of course connect that to revenue generation with growth and promotion velocity and rates and we can connect that with the source of the candidates and where they’re coming from, if they’re referrals or we’re actively hunting them. So I think this is more of that strategic layer of data, that this is really where we need to get to be able to influence a business and have them make them invest the time and have also leadership sponsor some of these conversations.
24:17
Leandro Cartelli
And this is where many times we’re not at or we don’t get to, because we can get to this point if we didn’t go through the operational metrics first and the more advanced ones second. You need to go through that entire journey and that can take time because you need to assess processes and you need to do a lot of different things together. But I think many organizations are for the most part at stage one, sometimes at stage two, but for the most part they never get to stage three, which is where you have the right data and insights to influence a business.
24:59
Matt Alder
With the kind of the advent and adoption of AI, one of the things that doesn’t get talked about enough is just how important data is within that. So those organizations that are in that kind of third stage are going to have a huge advantage when they sort of apply AI technologies to some of the aspects of what they do. I suppose on that point. What impact do you think AI is going to have on jobs and careers in recruiting?
25:25
Leandro Cartelli
Yeah, it’s, you know, it’s such a, you know, I think it’s such a big question nowadays and so hard to answer. And I, I’ve been thinking about this, you know, I think like everyone in the industry, right. And so, so it’s, you know, I think on the one side, I think it connects to something we mentioned before where we’re seeing, or we typically see TA teams not having enough resources. And so what I’m seeing nowadays a lot is the argument that with AI teams should be more efficient. And so we reduce the scale of our team, so we ask recruiters to manage a higher volume of open roles. But then we’re not strategically designing how they should incorporate AI in their execution.
26:20
Leandro Cartelli
So I think a couple of things we’re going to see very early on is some of that pain as we go through the transition. Then I do see, and we’ve all seen it, a big, I would say, adoption in AI for the operational tasks. So we’re seeing a lot of automated screening and hunting, a lot of assessment with AI, some tools that manage candidate experience, which is great. So we’re seeing some of that early on. I think one of the things that I’m noticing and I’m honestly concerned about in our industry is that typically for larger organizations, you used to have the TA operations team, and you could call it operations depending on the organization, maybe had different name, but the team said would support the operational task, would either focus on interview scheduling, on updating ats, on making sure data quality was right.
27:29
Leandro Cartelli
Sometimes they did some sourcing as well, but sometimes you also had a separate sourcing team. So depending on your structure, design, you had those layers or those teams within the TA function. And AI is coming in to basically take over all of that. Those are the things that AI is taking over first. And what you typically saw in those teams were they were an entry gate to talent acquisition, more junior people that came out of university or came to do an internship. They went to those teams because it was maybe less complex tasks, less exposure to business stakeholders. And it was the first step to really getting involved in talent acquisition. And one of my biggest concerns now is with AI taking over that we’re pretty much removing a lot of the entry points to the function.
28:33
Leandro Cartelli
And what does that mean to the future of recruiting and TA when you just miss those entry points and people, you know, you have your experienced TA advisors, we can call them now that you understand the business have done this for a long time. They have their networks, they know the market, and they also have a set of AI tools that takes care of all of that. Those are those recruiters that have been in the business for the last 10 years now. What about that person that just came out of university and wants to start in the business? They don’t have that right. And they also don’t have the job that, you know, where before they would support that individual, you know, that experienced talent advisor in scheduling interviews and learn from them.
29:16
Leandro Cartelli
And so I think one of the biggest concerns that I have is, you know, entry points are disappearing for the, you know, for the TA function, which by the way, is also going to impact HR in general because TA tends also to be an entry door for hr. Right? You see a lot of TA professionals going to some other roles like people partners and time development, so on and so forth. And so I think that’s one of the biggest things and concerns that, you know, that I personally have in mind right now with the function. And I think, you know, the other is we’re, you know, we’re seeing for some industries and some talent segments a faster pace of change than others. So, for example, you know, for blue collar hiring or, you know, retail, you know, that’s moving quickly into, you know, automation.
30:08
Leandro Cartelli
Right. Because it’s, you know, high volume hiring, it’s moving quickly into, you know, AI. And so you have less of a human involvement, at least from ta. Right. Because then they might talk to the business, but you have a lot of tools such as go, you know, you post a show, you get 500 applications, AI screens them and they send it, you know, top 10 candidates to the hiring manager. So you don’t need a recruiter there anymore. It’s different with white collar and you know, even less with executive roles where you need to build that, you know, that relationship and it’s a different process altogether. So, but I do see, you know, a bit of a takeover in those talent segments and those industries.
30:48
Leandro Cartelli
I guess eventually I, I heard, I think, you know, I, I don’t want to, I don’t remember who it was exactly, but someone from either Google or OpenAI saying that AI right now was operating at the level of an intern. And it’s really a baby. It’s been what, two years, a year and a half and so imagine in 5, 10. So I think that’s what we’re seeing now. I think it’s hard to say where it’s going, but I definitely think it’s going to be more difficult to get into the tanto function and industry. And I think it’s going to happen first in more global and large organizations I think then smaller startups and smaller companies.
31:42
Leandro Cartelli
There’s still probably going to need some level of TA advice, but maybe it’s going to be more of a people partner or HR generalist role that also manages ta.
31:53
Matt Alder
Yeah, I think you raised some really interesting points there and there were huge concerns about things like entry level jobs across the board. I mean, it’s difficult to predict the future and you’ve sort of talked about some of the things that are likely to happen there. But where do you think this is going to end up or where do you hope this is going to end up? What do you think the recruiting experience will look like in a few years time?
32:18
Leandro Cartelli
Yeah. So I think there’s two ways to answer that. Right. So let me start with where I hope it will end up. And I think, you know, where I hope it’s going to end up is with a blend of AI and human touch. Right. I’ve always been a strong believer and also a supporter in this industry of the importance of providing candidates with a positive experience. And I think creating that, optimizing through AI and simplifying the process, that’s going to happen. And ideally, we’re going to give our TA industry and recruiters and TA professionals the tools to definitely be more efficient and optimize their time and maybe even work a few less hours every day, but also have, you know, have them involved in the process. Right? Be, you know, be that human that’s accompanying and supporting candidates through their experience.
33:21
Leandro Cartelli
Because at the end of the day, when people make, you know, we’re in the industry where, you know, we support individuals to make one of the biggest decisions in your life, which is either taking a new show or, you know, or, you know, or starting a new career. And so I think having a person in that process is super important. It makes a difference. And so my aspiration and what I hope it will be is a mix of human touch supported by AI, where people feel that they have a person on the other side that’s right there with them. And also the business has a person that can advise them and guide them on the TA side.
34:06
Leandro Cartelli
And, and I think with a function that’s broader than just talent acquisition, I think this is going to make us make a change towards something that we’ve been talking a lot about, which is moving from silos, talent acquisition, talent development, different silos for talent, and just having a broader talent function. And so we’re going to have those talent advisors that work with the business, not only telling them and why they should make one hard decision and understand the market, but also connect that with their team and the current gaps that they have and the add cultural value that they need to go after in the market. And so I think we’re going to see that talent advisor that goes from acquisition to eventually exit of people in a company. That’s the aspiration, I would say.
34:58
Matt Alder
Leanne, thank you very much for joining me.
35:01
Leandro Cartelli
Thank you, Matt. It was great. Thank you. I appreciate it.
35:04
Matt Alder
My thanks to Lean. You can follow this podcast on Apple Podcasts on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. You can search all the past episodes at recruitingfuture.com on that site. You can also subscribe to our weekly newsletter, Recruiting Future Feast, and get the inside track on everything that’s coming up on the show. Thanks very much for listening. I’ll be back next time and I hope you’ll join me.
