Attracting talent gets all the headlines, but retention is where the real competitive advantage lives. In a market where top performers are constantly being approached by competitors and salary expectations keep rising, holding on to your best people has never been harder. At the same time, the rapid pace of AI and automation means the skills companies need are shifting faster than ever, making internal development and mobility just as critical as external hiring.
So how do you build a workplace where people genuinely want to stay and grow?
My guests this week are Annika in der Beek, Chief People Officer, and Giovanni Di Felice, Director of Talent Acquisition at Statista. In our conversation, they share the science-backed framework behind what makes an excellent employer and explain how hiring and retention are becoming inseparable parts of the same strategy.
In the interview, we discuss:
• Hiring challenges in AI and tech
• Encouraging candidates to use AI
• Why retention has become critical
• Measuring what makes an excellent employer
• Autonomy, competence, and relatedness at work
• The power of honest feedback
• Internal mobility and career development
• TA as a strategic business partner
• What does the future look like?
Learn more about The Excellent Workplace Rating.
Follow this podcast on Apple Podcasts.
Follow this podcast on Spotify.
00:00
Matt Alder
Every company wants to be known as a great employer. Very few earn that label. So what truly separates Excellent Workplaces from the rest? Keep listening to find out. Support for this podcast is brought to you by the Excellent Workplace Rating by Time Magazine and Statista, a new global standard for workplace recognition. If you’re committed to building a standout employer brand, your company can apply for the Time Magazine Excellent Workplace rating and be evaluated across 14 categories covering the full employee lifecycle. You’ll receive a detailed data driven report highlighting where you excel as an employer and where you can improve. Companies that qualify will also earn the Time Magazine Excellent Workplace Award and logo to showcase their achievement. Beyond recognition, the program helps you truly understand your workplace and your people, benchmark against peers, and strengthen your employer brand with credible third party validation.
01:07
Matt Alder
Head to the contact form at time.com/excellentworkplace that’s time.com/excellent workplace and include the discount code Recruiting Future in your Message to receive 20% off your company’s rating. If you’re attending Unleash America in Las Vegas March 17th through 19th, v. isit the excellent Workplace Rating booth to meet Statista experts and secure your chance to win a free rating for your company.
01:55
Matt Alder
Hi there. Welcome to episode 775 of Recruiting Future with me, Matt Alder. Attracting talent gets all the headlines, but retention is where the real competitive advantage lives. In a market where top performers are constantly being approached by competitors and salary expectations keep rising, holding onto your best people has never been harder. At the same time, the rapid pace of AI and automation means the skills that companies need are shifting faster than ever, making internal development and mobility just as critical as external hiring. So how do you build a workplace where people genuinely want to stay and grow? My guests this week are AAnnika in der Beek, Chief People Officer at Statista, and Giovanni Di Felice, Director of Talent Acquisition at Statista.
02:49
Matt Alder
In our conversation, they share the science backed framework behind what makes an excellent employer and explain how hiring and retention are becoming inseparable parts of the same strategy.
03:02
Matt Alder
Hi Giovanni. Hi Anika.
03:04
Matt Alder
Welcome to the podcast.
03:05
Matt Alder
It is an absolute pleasure to have you both on the show. Let’s just start out. Please introduce yourselves and tell everyone what you do.
03:13
Giovanni Di Felice
Hi Matt. Thank you Annika. With pleasure. Very happy to be here Matt. I’m the Director of Talent Acquisition at Satista. Been working here for one year and a half. It’s quite a long time, but it feels like Yesterday. I started yesterday, honestly, and I’m absolutely keen to share insights into how we hire, our hiring culture and whatever you would like to know.
03:34
Annika in der Beek
Fantastic, thank you. Also, from my side, thanks a lot for having us on the show today. And I’m Annika. I’m the chief people officer of Statista. I joined nearly two years ago, so in May 2024. And I’m based in Hamburg, where our global headquarters sits in.
03:51
Matt Alder
Fantastic. And tell us a little bit more about Statista for people who might not be familiar with the organization.
03:57
Annika in der Beek
Sure. So, in general, we are a global data service provider, providing business intelligence and access to our data across more than 170 industries and global coverage. A lot of people that I talk to about Statista always still know us from when they were at university, when they needed sources to cover their thesis, for example, or for work. But this is only one part of what we’re doing. This is our core platform model. So the one which is most known, secondly, a big growing business on our side as well, is our API business. So everything when it comes to how can we earn our right to play in the AI ecosystem, which means how we can plug our data into different AI solutions, large LLMs, for example, customized solutions that corporates use on their own, then we have of course, also own market research.
04:59
Annika in der Beek
So not just own modeled or own source data, but also primary market research that we do for clients. And last but not least, one part that we will also speak about today, a little bit deeper, I would say, is Statista ranking. Statista R. So what does ranking look like?
05:21
Giovanni Di Felice
So.
05:22
Annika in der Beek
So it’s a global analysis rating provider who has a benchmarking team, if we would say it like that, sitting there and doing a lot of benchmarks for different industries for different reasons. So, for example, best hospitals in the healthcare sector, best companies for sustainability, and for us, most important, of course, best employers. We also cover these on a global scale. And we’re not only doing the analysis behind the benchmarks, we’re also partnering with key media partners to tell the story behind that. So to really award excellence and provide these benchmarks. Who are these media partners? These are, for example, Time magazine, these are Forbes, and companies like NewSweet, for example.
06:15
Matt Alder
Fantastic. And we’ll get into some of that as we kind of get into the conversation. But let’s start by talking about talent acquisition. You know, how people are kind of attracting talent to their. To their businesses. I mean, Giovanni, from your perspective, what.
06:29
Matt Alder
Are you seeing is the sort of.
06:31
Matt Alder
The biggest hiring challenges right now? Are there any sort of particular roles that are difficult to source or recruit. What are the, what are the kind of the challenges that you’re facing that the other organizations might also be facing?
06:42
Giovanni Di Felice
Matt, I would say you touch a nerve, especially if you’re referring to particular roles. We could go on forever here. But I would just say that a couple of days ago actually posted a quite sassy post on the topic about roles that are really giving a big headache to us recruiters within the tech ecosystem at this point in time. And I will just briefly mention the big challenge that we are facing while hiring machine learning engineers. Long story short, what’s the problem here? Everyone today is an AI engineer. It’s really making things complicated because of course screening becomes way more challenging. And what is also what many people don’t know is that people who call themselves AI engineers are not all working on production level.
07:32
Giovanni Di Felice
So being able, let’s say to experiment with chatbots or build a small demo then doesn’t automatically make you an AI engineer. Right. That comes also with an additional caveat, which is the price tag. So people just think, okay, if I just change my name into AI engineers, I can just ask for a 30% more salary. Right?
07:53
Annika in der Beek
Yeah. That’s strategy, right?
07:56
Giovanni Di Felice
Absolutely. That’s very strategic. But that makes our life hell at the moment. So that’s just one of the many challenges. Not to mention as well I think particularly for the European ecosystem, the big lack of cybersecurity talent that’s coming quite a problem.
08:12
Matt Alder
Absolutely. I mean it’s, you know, they’re the kind of the sort of in demand, the in demand areas at the moment, aren’t they?
08:17
Matt Alder
And from an as we’re sort of.
08:19
Matt Alder
Talking about AI, I mean how do you use AI in your own recruiting process at the moment?
08:25
Giovanni Di Felice
That’s a question we love, I guess.
08:26
Annika in der Beek
Yes.
08:28
Giovanni Di Felice
I think Matt, we try to position ourselves as a quite forward thinking company as long as other, let’s say like Zapier for example, or Anthropic, we tend to actively encourage our applicants to use AI in the application process. For example, when it comes to reviewing their CV or just choosing the right way to present themselves. And I bring it even further when it comes to take home challenges to coding challenges. We even mentioned that they are absolutely encouraged to use it as long as they can then explain the rationale and the decisions that made them then create the work they came up with. Yes.
09:08
Matt Alder
Yeah, that’s kind of sort of really interesting. And obviously that’s an area that lots of companies are struggling with. Does that Throw up any kind of new problems in terms of, you know, the candidates using AI or using it where you don’t know they’re using it. Is it problematic in any way?
09:25
Giovanni Di Felice
Well, let’s say that it’s problematic when candidates use AI during interviews. That’s something that it’s of course an absolute no go because we are happy if they, for example, produce a better work thanks to the use of AI. But we want to get to know the person behind, you know, the applicant. So that definitely represents quite a challenge. I think something that is pretty challenging for us in tenant acquisition at Satis as well as many other companies in the tech ecosystem is that candidates are really fearful when it comes to the way we use AI. And something I definitely want to reassure them on is that we never ever use, let’s say, their personal data to feed AI or machine learning models. Models, so to say. So we are in that sense absolutely aligned also with your directives.
10:15
Giovanni Di Felice
And it’s always a human led process in the end.
10:18
Matt Alder
Yeah, absolutely. That makes perfect sense. And then obviously, once organizations have hired people, the challenge is all around retention, which I know is something that employers are having issues with, particularly for the kind of roles that you were talking about that are sort of high in demand. What do you think the biggest retention challenges are that organizations are facing right now? What is it that makes it difficult for companies? You know, Annika, you’re probably best.
10:46
Matt Alder
Placed to answer this one.
10:48
Annika in der Beek
Oh, that’s a good one. So I think beside all the topics that you just mentioned, of course retention is the second key topic because I think also over the last years, that part where one person stays with an employer for their lifetime and retires with the same employer that they started with after university. These times are long ago, which also has some good aspects and also some bad aspects. Right. But that also means that retention is a key challenge. And I also think that in times where people are more connected, where there is more transparency around company, around jobs, about salaries, people naturally look more left and right, which is good for people, of course, that they can progress through different companies and really explore their careers in different ways.
11:41
Annika in der Beek
Nevertheless, that’s a key challenge for us as an organization because it’s like, how do we make sure to retain core talents and talent retention is for me something when it comes to performance management. So how do we make sure to especially retain our top talents? Also here, usually top talents are not just top talents at one company, but also will be at different companies and are pretty much sought after in the market. I Think this is one key challenge. I think another challenge at the moment here in Europe is to balance a tough market situation, especially within the European tech sector, where you have a lot of budget pressure everywhere, plus rising salary expectations of people and providing strong benefits.
12:36
Annika in der Beek
I think finding that balance, at least for us, but also in my former positions, has been one key challenge in how to retain people. And then last but not least, of course, everything comes down to culture, how to enable leadership to provide, or to how to enable leadership to create great team cultures and really give people a sense of belonging. So where it’s something like, how can I achieve impact, how can I create something? How do I really feel? This is the place for me where I can be effective, where I can grow, and where I also can imagine staying a little bit longer, although maybe a direct competitor, it gives me 10% of salary more if I switch from external. I think these are some of the thoughts at the moment that I’m having on the retention topic.
13:36
Matt Alder
Yeah, and let’s sort of pull that into the excellent workplace rating, you know, sort of system that you have. Because I think that could sort of really help also shed a light on what companies are doing really well in this area. But just kind of explain it for us a little bit first. So it’s built on self determination theory. Some people listening might not be familiar with what that is. So could you kind of explain that for us and explain how it evaluates what makes a workplace. What makes a workplace a great place to work?
14:09
Annika in der Beek
Yes, for sure. So one product that we have launched quite recently is our, as you said, excellent employer rating that we do together with our media partner, Time magazine. And of course, we as a data and analysis company, ask ourselves, what does excellent mean? Because already if you start by definition, what is excellent? It’s something different for basically every single person. So we really wanted to base this as much science bet as we could, but still being digestible and not coming with a complete theoretical approach to companies, because what people want to get out of the rating is, hey, how am I doing? How am I perceived? Am I excellent? Or am I far away from that? And what are topics that we can do better to achieve excellence? We think that the self determination theory provides an excellent source for that one.
15:08
Annika in der Beek
And I came across that theory quite a while ago and I rediscovered it now as part of the process. And what’s the self determination theory? It’s one core aspect from positive psychology and also is based on three core psychological needs. What I love most about this is you will hear the needs later. I personally would not say that there’s any person in the world who would be like, okay, I object with them. These are not my needs at all. Let’s get started. Number one, autonomy. So that means I have the choice and I also have the ownership. Throughout my decision, I feel that I’m being trusted, I’m empowered in the organization. And I of course can also influence how work gets done. This is factor number one. Factor number two, competence.
16:04
Annika in der Beek
So that means I feel capable of doing what I should do and that I also have skills and room to grow. That also includes topics like skills. As I just said, I get feedback from a manager throughout the organization. I get the right recognition. But also on the other hand, of course, opportunities to move my career both vertically and horizontally throughout the company. And last but not least, it’s relatedness. So I feel connected and valued in the place where I am. So that means I experience a high sense of belonging with my organization and I’m able to build meaningful relationships at work.
16:49
Annika in der Beek
And this is the whole concept that we base our employer rating on that we are like, hey, these are the factors if we really want to speak about excellence that have to be a given in the workplace and that are then measured throughout various dimensions and also through various perspectives.
17:16
Matt Alder
Yeah, you’re right. I can’t see anyone disagreeing with those as, you know, three measures of what’s going to make someone an excellent employer from. From the data that you’re getting or what you’re kind of seeing. How’s that kind of working in practice? What is it that sort of separates companies that are great attracting and importantly keeping talent from the ones that don’t? And how can people fill in the gaps? What’s the, what’s your kind of practical advice? Listening?
17:45
Annika in der Beek
I think there are some parts I could speak about this for two hours actually. But let me quickly summarize my parts. What are the main important ones is. And then you might also have numerous ones to act to add that you see. So number one, I think employers really being authentic. So how often have you seen companies that for example, tell a wonderful story on their career page and on every fair that they are going and are really a talent magnet from the outside. But as soon as you look into the company, as soon as you look on platforms like Lastdoor, etc. The story is a complete different one. And I think also here being in line with what you tell to the outside world and also delivering on it on the inside it sounds. Or it might sound dirt simple.
18:43
Annika in der Beek
What I’m just saying. But if there is a gap, talent will join and will directly sense that. So I definitely think it’s authenticity and of course consistency in what you’re telling. Second, having. And that also might sound simple having good structures and processes in place for topics like talent development so that it’s not a topic like a gut feeling that there was that one person who did a good job for two months and that person is being promoted through. And it looks a bit arbitrary on the outside. No, it’s like clearly defining, giving clarity and really showing talent where they have to be what’s expected from them, providing feedback, developing people through their career. And also here not only offering the classical career ladder, but also enabling moves more horizontally where people can see different divisions can develop themselves further on different levels.
19:49
Annika in der Beek
I think these are two topics that I see that really distinguishes excellent companies from good companies. What I haven’t mentioned yet are topics like a healthy culture. So points like law on politics, no finger pointing. Also tolerance and room for learning from failures and not creating a fear about. About failures, mistakes and topics that go not as expected. I think these are some where I’m like, okay, that might be no brainers, but of course they are important as well. But there’s so much baseline that I’m like, okay, that’s. That defines if someone is good but not if someone makes it from good to excellent. How do you see?
20:34
Giovanni Di Felice
I have to say that I’m particularly happy that Anika mentioned internal mobility because I actually recently read a study I don’t want to mention exactly let’s say the company because it might be wrong. So I want to be. Since we are a data company, I want to be absolutely precise. But I read an absolutely interesting study mentioning that by 2028 AI might be so disruptive that the skills we’re hiring for might even not be needed anymore or have evolved into something completely different. That’s why something that Annika and I that we all are very big at satisfies internal mobility. Yeah. So I think it’s absolutely a key topic we should. Should lose sight of. Yeah.
21:16
Annika in der Beek
And then we had some. You also asked us for some practical tips, right?
21:20
Matt Alder
Yeah, absolutely. How can people kind of fill that gap?
21:23
Annika in der Beek
And I think let’s do it via the three categories that are part of the self determination theory to do that in line. And then we can. I think the two of us can provide some good examples. And let’s start with the very first one. Autonomy so whenever I hear hey, someone is joining a company and has a lot of ownership, then please don’t start micromanaging people, right? So if you get someone in because you feel that person is excellent and what they are doing, then also please give them the room and stop micromanaging them as much on the process but more as a company, see to steer what’s the output that I want from a person and not what’s the process and nitty gritty tell them what to do. I think this is one concrete example.
22:12
Annika in der Beek
Might be a little bit fluffy, but I think this is something that comes down a lot to the direct manager but also to the management of a company and that you really have to be mindful about where to manage the what and where to manage the how,
22:28
Giovanni Di Felice
Then I will follow with competence, I guess.
22:30
Annika in der Beek
Yes. Or you have another good one on autonomy.
22:33
Giovanni Di Felice
You also have a very good one in competence. Because I’m thinking for example of the roles we’re hiring for in our revenue organization, right? I will pick a really basic example. Let’s assume we’re hiring for a contract manager, right? It would be absolutely wrong even mean if we promise, let’s say an evolution of the role that doesn’t exist. So let’s perhaps imagine that this role is supposed to stay as it is advertised and it’s not evolving anytime soon in Tokyo Camp manager, then it would be completely. Would put someone completely off if you onboarded someone and then wouldn’t offer them the chance you promised them during the interview process.
23:13
Giovanni Di Felice
And I also something I really like about the way we work at Satisa, we of course have two, let’s say annual performance cycles like many other companies, but something we do and I believe we don’t do it only within the people team. We have, let’s say periodic growth conversations. So we tend to make sure that our ones, weekly ones are not only transactional but also focus on long term development goals in a way that we do not come to the performance talk as if we never talked before about, you know, growth and performance.
23:45
Annika in der Beek
And I think that one what just comes to my mind on that example, one big topic or one book that we love at Statista and that we really live throughout our processes is the radical Candle book from Kim Scott. Big recommendation for everyone who hasn’t read it yet and adding to the growth conversation topic, right? If you fear giving constructive feedback, if you don’t do that early on, that’s not nice. People often fear as being perceived as not nice if they have the hard conversations. But what you really do is you’re taking away the possibility of a person to develop themselves and have clarity on where they’re standing. And I think this is one key part when it comes to the competence piece. I know that it’s awkward.
24:36
Annika in der Beek
It’s still awkward for me as a chro, when I have to have a constructive feedback with someone that I deeply value. Why? Because I don’t want to hurt that person. Nevertheless, I also have to ask myself that question and am I being nice and am I acting in the best possible way for that person? If I keep my mouth shut and 12 months later, I’m like, so it just didn’t work out. So this is like. This is like your termination letter. We have to part ways. No one will be helped with that. So I think this is something what I really appreciate. And also here, Jio, you’re with the growth talks that you’re doing. You’re really leading by example because this is the additional layer that you put on top to the performance talks that we’re having.
25:23
Giovanni Di Felice
Thank you for the flowers.
25:25
Matt Alder
Fantastic. Fantastic.
25:26
Annika in der Beek
And last but not least, we have the relatedness. And I will start with that one. And it’s a wide topic again, but where does relatedness come from? Let’s look at a company, for example, with a thousand employees and have a CEO who’s a great CEO. Of course, that CEO is influential and gives direction for the company and for the majority of people to follow. But that person will not be able to have a personal relationship with every single one of the thousand employees in that company. It’s just not possible to scale yourself as a person that much. So what does it mean? Empowerment of direct managers. So to really make sure that you have good managers in place, that you have managers in place that know that they’re working with humans and not with robots. And.
26:20
Annika in der Beek
And that there also people who want to be in people management and not just promote your best individual contributors to a manager position, no matter if they want it or not. If they don’t want it, what will happen? You maybe will burn them out. You might hold teams out and no one will be happy with the situation. This is also something related again to the part of also being able to have horizontal career switches and not being just put in a box and be like, hey, that’s the only one way to go and to grow. And I think that’s another one which is very important for me on the relatedness topic.
27:03
Matt Alder
No, absolutely.
27:04
Matt Alder
I think that’s.
27:05
Matt Alder
It’s just such a.
27:06
Matt Alder
It’s just such a vital thing, I.
27:07
Matt Alder
Think, particularly in the world we live, where skills are going out of date, new skills are developing and, you know, people kind of need that, you know, need that mobility. You need your best talent in the,
27:18
Matt Alder
In the right places.
27:19
Matt Alder
A final question for you.
27:21
Matt Alder
Where’s this all going?
27:24
Matt Alder
How are companies thinking about hiring and retention? How is that going to evolve over the next sort of two to three years in the current environment that we’re in, with all the disruption and the rapid change?
27:37
Annika in der Beek
That’s the easiest question, right? If I would be like, I have all the answers, I would be bluntly lying to you. There would be. Neil, do you know where to start?
27:48
Giovanni Di Felice
I’m happy to start. Yeah. No, it’s indeed a difficult question, Matt. But I’m just going to say that I think we’ve never had a time in history of the history of TA where retention was so part of the core task of talent acquisition as well. And you can tell that also by the fact that many companies like ourselves have embedded also quality of hire among their key metrics. So it’s a topic you really look into from the moment you hire a person. And yeah, I mean, of course, I mean, every company has to find their own recipe, so to say. I’m not sure if you want to disclose ours, but I can tell that’s definitely an important topic. That also implies that the talent acquisition people are now becoming more and more of people partners and the roles are kind of melting.
28:41
Annika in der Beek
Absolutely. To give the example on Chrview, on Jio’s role, for example, if you would have asked me five years ago where we still had, or let’s say a bit longer, so end of 2020, mid-2021, where especially in E commerce and within European tech landscape, there was a huge boom and hyper growth throughout companies. If you would ask me what a directed talent acquisition would do, then in recruiting, I would be like, please fill open positions. If I see what Gio is now doing is much more also consulting, hiring managers.
29:19
Annika in der Beek
If they have someone churning out and they’re looking for a replacement, then it’s not Jio who’s like, okay, yes, please give me the exact role description that you have five years ago and I will publish it and find you someone, but really get into discussions with them and hey, do you still need that position? If yes, do you need exactly that position or does it make sense to somehow switch it according to what your divisional strategy is? And of course, number three, what’s the right level and skill set of a candidate that you want to bring in. And maybe this also leads to us being like, great that we’re talking about hiring, but for what you’re looking at, we have the perfect candidate already within the company and then it’s us to enable that move across divisions.
30:12
Annika in der Beek
And this really makes a TA lead to more of a trusted partner along the employee cycle. And not only on getting talent in, but also really seeing how to keep talent within the company.
30:27
Matt Alder
Absolutely. Anika, Giovanni, thank you very much for talking to me.
30:32
Giovanni Di Felice
Our pleasure.
30:33
Annika in der Beek
Thank you for having us.
30:34
Giovanni Di Felice
Thank you.
30:35
Matt Alder
My thanks to Annika and Giovanni. You can follow this podcast on Apple Podcasts on Spotify or wherever you listen to your podcasts. You can search all the past episodes at recruitingfuture.com on that site. You can also subscribe to our weekly newsletter, Recruiting Future Feast, and get the inside track on everything that’s coming up on the show. Thanks very much for listening. I’ll be back next time and I hope you’ll join me.
