Back in April, I ran a live podcast conference on the future of talent acquisition in partnership with the team at TA Tech. We had ten excellent speakers across five topic sessions, and I’m delighted to be able to bring you the content to you as a series of podcasts. I’ve released these every Friday for the last few weeks and really hope you have been enjoying them.
The last episode in this series looks at the future of AI & the candidate experience. This is a wide-ranging topic, and I was delighted to have two guests who come at it from different angles, Diane Circo, VP of US Talent Acquisition at Siemens and James Saunders, CEO of Attrax. You’ll also hear briefly from Peter Weddle from TA Tech at the end as we bring the event to a close
In the conversation, we discuss:
▪ How the pandemic is changing candidate expectations
▪ Being flexible and responsive
▪ The advantages of Career Site Systems
▪ Human moments of impact in the balance between AI and recruiters
▪ Data & intelligence
▪ Innovation in automation
▪ Strategic segmentation
▪ What will the recruiting process look like in two years?
▪ Advice to employers on designing the candidate experience of the future
Listen to this podcast on Apple Podcasts.
Transcript:
Matt Alder [00:00:17]:
Hi everyone and welcome to this special bonus episode of the Recruiting Future podcast. Back in April, I ran a live podcast conference on the future of talent Acquisition in partnership with the team at TA Tech. We had 10 excellent speakers across five topic sessions and I’m delighted to be able to bring you the content as a series of podcasts. I’ve released these every Friday for the last few weeks and I really hope you’ve been enjoying them. The last episode in this series looks at the future of AI and the candidate experience. This is a very wide ranging topic and I was delighted to have two guests who come at it from very different angles. Diane Circo, VP of US Talent Acquisition at Siemens, and James Saunders, CEO of Attrax. You’ll also hear briefly from Peter Weddle from TA Tech at the end as we bring the event to a close.
Diane Circo [00:01:11]:
So I’m the head of US Talent Acquisition at Siemens, and for those of you who aren’t as familiar with Siemens, we’re a global tech company. We help our customers to transform their industries through all kinds of innovative technology solutions. Our goal is to really kind of connect the physical and digital world and we’re in collaboration with our customers, taking on challenges like climate change, like sustainable transportation, health care, efficient and sustainable manufacturing, and then some. And then some. We have a pretty large footprint here in the us. The team that I lead supports our core industrial businesses and our corporate functions. And we recruit across all talent segments. So everything from early professional to skilled trade to experienced professional to senior level executive, and everything in between.
Matt Alder [00:02:03]:
Fantastic stuff. So James, introduce yourself and tell us what you do.
James Saunders [00:02:07]:
Hi Matt. Well, thanks for having me on. So my name is James Saunders. I’m the CEO of a company called Attrax. Many of you might not have heard of Attrax because we’ve only been going about 18 months. So we’re a kind of relative startup. But Attrax is the first, to my knowledge, career site system that’s been available to the HR technology market. So we build career sites that are smart, that are SaaS that evolve and develop and are led by a very clear product roadmap. And we work with companies all over the world. So we’ve got customers in the UK, customers in the US, customers in EMEA, we’ve got CareerSight systems in Japan for example. And effectively what we focus on from an AI perspective is the front end of that candidate journey. So it’s all about customizing and tailoring the CANVA experience. Our philosophy is very much around people in the same way as people buy from people. People want to see people like them when they’re searching for jobs. And that’s how we utilize and harness our technology to enable that to happen.
Matt Alder [00:03:09]:
Just to clarify, because people may not have come across the term before, but what’s the difference between a career site and a career site system?
James Saunders [00:03:15]:
Okay, so the career site has been around for 20 years, since the dawn of the Internet, and most talent attraction, professionals. And maybe, Diane, you might correct me here if I’m wrong, but they tend to see it as a bit of a burden because it’s a thing you have to do every two to three years because it’s constantly out of date. So typically, you’d go to a creative vendor and they would give you a proposal and you’d expect something out and it’ll be very creative led. By the time the whole thing goes live in, say, 18 months or so, it’s actually out of date and you have to do the whole thing again in two or three years. So ours is a career site system. It’s a piece of the HR technology tech stack in the same way as the ATS is. You wouldn’t go with a specification to a software vendor and say, I’d like an ATS that does this. You’d be led by the software vendor. And exactly the same way the career site system fits into the tech stack like that and obviously integrates with employer, brand and ATS and things like that. So think CareerSight as a system, not as a creative project that you have to redo every couple of years.
Matt Alder [00:04:16]:
Cool.
Matt Alder [00:04:16]:
Thank you. And I thought it was kind of worth clarifying that, because I know it’s something that not everyone has necessarily come across before. So AI and candidate experience, it’s a really big topic. And again, I want to kind of start with a bit of context and find out a bit more about really kind of how it affects your businesses. So starting with Diane, tell us about your strategy at Siemens. What work are you doing on AI and candidate experience?
Diane Circo [00:04:44]:
Yeah, the timing of this discussion is. It’s funny because right now at Siemens, we’re thinking about how AI can really create opportunities for us to completely reimagine not only the candidate experience, but actually the experience throughout the entire talent lifestyle for both external talent as well as internal talent, existing employees here at Siemens. So not only are we looking at, you know, the things that everybody’s looking at right now, better ways to proactively match talent to jobs, right, both internal and external talent, and to help those, those candidates engage with those opportunities. But we’re also looking at how can this technology be used to, for example, match existing employees to learning opportunities based on their role, their skills, their development plan, their interests, you know, whatever the criteria might be. So we’ve been talking a lot about all kinds of things. AI enabled assessment technology, how can that be used throughout the talent life cycle? And then, of course, there are tremendous opportunities to streamline and automate, and I know that there’s been a lot of discussion about that throughout the day today. Streamline and automate aspects of the recruiting process and the onboarding process to create a more seamless experience for candidates. You know, not to mention all those potential use cases in progression, performance management rewards, recognition, retention. You know, there’s so many opportunities. We’re not at Siemens trying to transform everything at the same time. You know, we’re taking it in chunks, sort of starting it at the beginning, but we see tremendous, tremendous opportunity and we are truly reimagining all of that in the context of everything that AI can bring to bear for us.
Matt Alder [00:06:38]:
One of the things that has come up in all of the sessions so far has been the challenging candidate market that we’re currently in. And in some ways that’s almost a surprise because it’s perhaps not where we thought we’d be this time last year. I want to ask about candidates, but I want to particularly talk about expectations. So just sort of kicking off with James, from what you’re seeing, how has the pandemic changed candidate expectations in terms of where they were 18 months ago?
James Saunders [00:07:06]:
Well, I think from a recruiter perspective, you’ve got two challenges, haven’t you? Got the hard to find candidates and then you’ve got a selection problem. But I think we’ve got possibly, for many roles, less of a selection problem than we anticipated maybe six, 12 months ago. And actually we’re back, you know, with hard to fill roles. I think from a candidate perspective, you’ve got to look at stuff that would have happened anyway, you know, before the pandemic. You know, there’s an influx of millennials coming through into middle and senior management positions, and their expectations are simply rather different to previous generations. If you look at the parallels between digital recruitment and E retail, there’s something people have been speaking about for several years. Certainly the generation coming through spend a lot more time researching who they’re going to work with and wanting that sort of social proofing and things like that, so what that’s led to is from a career site perspective is much bigger career sites which include a lot more content that’s much, much more sophisticated than jobs content. So what I’m talking about there is video content, social content, blog content, white papers, the whole thing. So that you get on a sophisticated career site you might get 80, 90% of your content to be non job space. So from that perspective there, the parallels between E retail and recruitment kind of end, don’t they? Because you know, if you go onto Amazon, it’s all about products but there’s not actually that much content beyond that and the reviews and things like that. So the expectations of candidates have changed and I believe that the candidates are more willing to engage with brands earlier in the process than they’ve ever been. Okay, so what I mean by that is that, you know, 80% of job seekers are passive. Many of those candidates are actually engaging with their brands with the career sites far longer than previously in terms of far earlier rather in the job seeking process than they’d ever done before. So really it’s about this courtship, it’s about providing information that’s not hard sell about a specific brand to a candidate. But of course big brands have lots of different roles to fill, lots of different types of candidates. Even within a single role there are different types of candidates. If you’re a 20 year old programmer, you can have different expectations. To a 35 year old programmer, the whole principle of using and leveraging AI is that you can use this technology to customize and personalize that candidate experience so that it’s meaningful for the actual candidate and that actually is good for the candidate. But it’s great also for the brand because A, it improves the employee brand, it improves the position, exception of the employer, but secondly, it improves the conversion rate longer term. So even if you’ve got a long three, six month courtship with a candidate where they’re interacting with content on the career site, that sort of thing, you’re going to have a much better chance of converting that candidate. And in the global war for talent, everybody wants that. So it’s a very much different, it’s almost, you know, it’s very much the opposite of a job board sort of transactional way of dealing with things. And you know, it’s been predictive for a few years and I think possibly the pandemic has actually sped up that process.
Matt Alder [00:10:27]:
And Diane, what’s your kind of experience in terms of changing candidate expectations as they kind of move through the funnel?
Diane Circo [00:10:33]:
Yeah, it’s hard to keep up with lately. And to James’s point, you know, I think most of us in the talent, HR talent acquisition space, we already knew that the pandemic would drive major changes in the future workforce and in candidate expectations. Right. And a lot of especially larger organizations have been preparing for that. Right. For the, for the last several months, rethinking their work culture, so on and so forth. I read an article that cited a survey just about a week ago in which 50% of the respondents said that flexibility in hours and location has become more important to them post Covid as we emerge from the pandemic when they’re looking for a new job opportunity. And that’s the fastest growing factor ahead of work life balance, ahead of benefits, ahead of pay, and even ahead of workforce culture. And that response was consistent across all generations, from boomers to generation Z. So that just speaks to what’s happening in the market right now. I’ve surveyed my recruiters just on my team about what they’re experiencing. So I’m reading what’s happening in the external market. Are we seeing the same thing here? And they’re echoing the candidate expectations around flexibility on hours and location. Interestingly, we’re reading talent trend reports saying that more people are saying that they intend to make a job move this year. But when it comes to passive talent, what we’re experiencing directly is that I would call it, this is not very scientific, but I would say we’re seeing an above average reluctance to make a move among passive talent. And I think people still kind of need a minute to trust that the market’s changing, we’re emerging from this pandemic, and that they feel like they’re comfortable to take a risk, make a major life decision, which is completely understandable. But what that also means is that for the people who are willing to make a job, a job change, the market’s hot for them. Multiple offers, intense salary negotiation, you know, it’s just really, really changed the game that much more. In the war for talent, I presume.
Matt Alder [00:12:59]:
Candidate experience is a, is a massive kind of selling point, a massive part of the brand within that, isn’t it?
Diane Circo [00:13:05]:
It is. And I think it’s important that you know, with just looking at how and it sat it feels like, and James, you probably noticed the trends change almost week to week. You’re learning something new like what’s going on, right. And so it’s critically important that we, when we think about candidate experience, we’re almost thinking about it like we think about employee value proposition. It needs to be flexible and responsive. It’s not just a static thing. Like, we define what it is and that’s what it is. It’s not like that anymore.
Matt Alder [00:13:37]:
Yeah, no, absolutely, absolutely. It’s such a fascinating time. And I think what’s really interesting is, you know, we’ve been talking about the candidate experience at conferences and events and in meetings for at least a decade, if not longer. But it does really feel like we’re at kind of an inflection point in terms of increasing candid expectations, but also increasing sophistication in terms of technology. So my next question is really about that. We’ve also talked about automation kind of a lot already today. But I mean, how does automation and AI actually work with humans in terms of delivering a great candidate experience? James, what are your thoughts?
James Saunders [00:14:17]:
Well, I think, listen, if it’s not good for the candidate, it’s not good for anyone, is it? So people are worried about the machines taking over and so forth. And again, going back to Eretail, I think when you’ve got a cold, hard product, then you can automate everything a little bit more easily because a camera is just a camera, isn’t it? But when you’re talking about a human being that’s it doesn’t react in the same way as a camera, for example, then you have to. That human input always has to be there. Bots are hot at the moment, aren’t they? Everybody wants a bot on their career site. Everybody wants. Because that seems to be a great way of improving candidate experience and also of automating stuff, which takes time and effort in recruitment teams. But I think we’re kind of going through this transition period where it’s kind of a bot is kind of an interesting thing. And almost from a candidate perspective, it’s one of these things we go, all right, these guys have got a bot. Yeah, I get that. Let’s give it a test and stuff. But for me, if we get a couple of years in the future, it’s all about that becoming the norm. Because if you’re going to personalize that whole candidate experience to a candidate, and that’s kind of what you were alluding to, Diane, I think what you’re saying is that let’s treat everybody a bit differently because people want to be treated a bit differently, then you’re going to have to find out a bit more about those. Those people. And just looking at their behavior, you know, what they do on a career site or how they interact with your brand or your advertising is one thing. And we can Collect stuff around, you know, IP and cookies and stuff. But that is, that is a bit limited. You know, you’re going to have to ask them questions and find out stuff about themselves. And that’s where a bot is really useful and a bot comes in. So, you know, for me, you know, if we’re looking into the future, I think it’s going to become a hygiene factor. I think we’re going to be less drawn to it. I think that sort of subconscious. Or am I going to be dealing with a human behind this or is it an actual robot? It’s kind of been removed a little bit. But ultimately it’s got to all have that human touch within the talent attraction sphere.
Matt Alder [00:16:30]:
From my perspective and Diane, coming over to you, I mean, what’s your views on this? What’s the balance that you have between humans and AI in your sort of candidate experience? And where do you think that’s going in the future?
Diane Circo [00:16:43]:
Yeah, I very much agree with everything that James just said. And I think just building on that a little bit more, what we’re seeing is candidates really are coming to expect a more consumer grade experience, right? So they’re already experiencing that really hyper personalized digital experience in almost every other aspect of their lives. So why would they not expect it in the hiring process? Of course, the big difference is that buying a product online is not usually life changing. Although I have maybe bought a life changing pair of shoes once in my life, but it’s usually not life changing. But searching for a job or interviewing for what might be your next job is potentially life changing. And Trent spoke to this in the last session. So we have to be really careful, and we are at Siemens very careful not to digitize the humanity out of this experience. We can’t do that. And AI actually gives us the opportunity to automate that lower touch, transactional stuff, if you will, in the process. So we can create more space and more opportunity for that human interaction. Then we, you know, we can kind of strategically create and this is what we’ve been working on doing throughout our process, end to end those opportunities for candidates to not just learn about the Siemens culture, but to experience it directly through the human interaction they have with the recruiter and other members, you know, other stakeholders throughout the hiring process. So we’re really looking to create those, you know, human moments of impact, if you will.
Matt Alder [00:18:32]:
Now I just had to write down not digitizing the humanity because that’s the, that’s the, that’s such a brilliant, that’s such a brilliant phase and that Phrase. And I think that sums it up so well. I just want to kind of put in an extra question to dig into a couple of things that you both said there. So we’re agreed that the human aspect of this process is critically important because this is humans dealing with humans round an incredibly big decision in someone’s life. How much is there in terms of science that sits behind this though? What is the role of data? I mean, James, is something you talked about. What is the role of data in terms of understanding that and making the process. Making the process better. Anyone can take that first.
James Saunders [00:19:16]:
Well, I think with all things, the more data you collect about interactions, the better result you’re going to get, aren’t you? And we ensure that any candidate that hits an attracts career site, we understand where they’re coming from. We understand that even hitting a career site, for example, there might have been 50 different interactions with that brand off the career site. So it could be through a job board banner, it could be through a job board ad, could be an application on, indeed, it could be from a careers fair, it could be to a landing page that you set up. So the more data that you actually collect about the behavior of that candidate, the more you can do about in terms of some of the things that Diane was speaking about. And you’re obviously on fire with these great turns of phrase, Diane, because human moments of impact is a brilliant turn of phrase. And that’s what we’re talking about there, you know, because if that candidate can see somebody a bit like them doing a job, a bit like a job that they’d like to do on a career site, and that’s been served up because the career site is smart enough to understand that that person’s looking at that at that point in time, then that’s a real win. We know that’s a real win. You know, we’ve got lots of case studies of that and that helps in so many ways in terms of their conversion. You know, just, you know, even from a diversity inclusion perspective perspective, for example, if somebody’s from the right ethnicity or backgrounds, that can be a huge win. So the more sophisticated in terms of data collection, the better results you’re going to get at the front end.
Matt Alder [00:20:50]:
And Diane, I mean, how much does data play a part in how you sort of move forward with your candidate experience?
Diane Circo [00:20:57]:
Yeah, data is important for all the reasons that James just articulated. Couldn’t agree more with the need for a sophisticated approach to data and looking at every possible data point. I think it’s also important and the way we look at it at Siemens is it has to be balanced, right? So there’s the sophisticated data, there’s all that stuff that we’re looking at. But we’re also, you know, it’s not as high, you know, it’s not as scientific, maybe. But we’re also asking candidates, what do you want? What do you need? What was your experience? How has it been so far? You know, and I think that’s important in, you know, it doesn’t matter what size your organization is or how sophisticated your tech stack is or any of that. Talk to your candidates, ask them, survey them. Candidate experience surveys. Right. Look at that data and talk to them throughout the process. How’s it been going so far? Be transparent. We’re trying to create an experience for you where you can envision yourself working for Siemens. We want you to feel like you’re getting to know our work culture. So I think it needs to be balanced.
James Saunders [00:22:05]:
I think there’s just on that. There’s a lot of pressure, I think, to. So, again, I couldn’t agree with more. You need that sort of analog approach as well, of course. But we’ve talked about E Retail a couple of times, and the problem is the budgets for retail are astronomical, aren’t they, compared to general talent attraction budgets? And therefore there is that greater pressure to do every year for a talent attraction team to do more with the same or even less. So there is that pressure to automate, which could in the future lead to greater innovation in our industry than, for example, E retail and things like that, where the budgets are higher because the return investment is that much more obvious.
Matt Alder [00:22:52]:
And that does bring me on to the next question, which is, I suppose, getting your crystal balls out and looking into the future in an optimistic way. So it’s kind of what you hope is going to happen. What do you think the recruiting process is going to look like in. In two years time? James, what are your thoughts?
James Saunders [00:23:10]:
What I’m seeing, both as an employer actually, and as a vendor in this marketplace, is that it seems to me that headhunting, not in a traditional sense, but in this sort of courtship sense that I refer to, is more prevalent. Okay. So in the same way as the next generation kind of wants that ownership of making a decision whether they buy stuff they don’t want to be sold to. So I can see that within the recruitment process as well. So it’s like, give me information, I will make a decision. Okay. And that’s very much different to when I first started out. It was all about Applying for a job on a job board or certainly a transactional approach. I read the job spec, so it might be risky prediction, but I see fewer candidate placements in many industries as a result of a job application, more by self selection, which is kind of a form of head. It’s self headhunting, isn’t it? But I’m not talking about a traditional form where they do a load of research and give you a call out of office hours. I’m talking about where the candidate actually almost makes himself available to be selected by that employer brand. Am I making sense?
Matt Alder [00:24:26]:
Yeah, totally. Diane, what’s your perspective? First, your perspective on what James has said, but also what’s your vision of the recruiting process in two years time?
Diane Circo [00:24:35]:
Yeah, I could not agree more with what James said. And so I won’t repeat, I won’t repeat it. I’ll build on it and maybe zoom up and out a little bit. I think we’re going to see AI impacting, just kind of moving beyond recruiting process. AI will be impacting recruiting models over the next couple of years and beyond. So just, just like the way James really, you know, articulated how this is going to change for candidates kind of selecting in versus us going after them. Right. I think we’re going to see certainly in larger organizations with more robust TA functions, they’re going to start automating more the transactional aspects of ta, which is going to allow them to become more sophisticated in how they support critical talent segments so they can kind of ring fence those, those critical skills where we still have to do a lot of passive outreach. Right. And develop strategies and approaches specifically to support them. I think AI is going to really give us that opportunity to do that strategic segmentation in a way we’ve never even thought possible. And I think then recruiters will be able to continue their transformation from recruiter into true talent advisory. And hopefully I’m thinking about smaller companies too, as the use cases and the business value of AI and recruiting become stronger and stronger, and we see that happening every day. Hopefully smaller companies will be able to advance their business cases for investment in AI and start their transformational journeys, whatever that might look like for them. But regardless of how big or small an organization is or a TA function is, this rapid advancement in TA technology is happening. It’s happening to all of us and we all have an opportunity to leverage it to drive higher value for the businesses that we support in some way. So it’s actually really exciting.
Matt Alder [00:26:40]:
Absolutely.
Matt Alder [00:26:41]:
And that leads nicely onto my last question. In fact, the last question of the entire event. So let’s finish with some advice to the employers that are listening or the employers who are going to listen to listen to this in the, in the future. So start with Diane. What, what’s your one piece of advice to employers when it comes to designing the candidate experience of the future? What, what should they be focusing on first?
Diane Circo [00:27:04]:
Only one. All right, I’ll try, I’ll try. Well, you know, actually my first thought, my first comment probably would have been that the importance of that human touch, right. Don’t digitize humanity out of the process. That would be number one. But we already talked about that, so I’ll give you another one instead. Maybe kind of related, you know, and probably just as important as the human touch, the humanity in the process. And this might go without saying, but I think it’s important to say it anyway. We have to ensure that the candidate experience is not only inclusive, right, From a diversity and inclusion perspective, but that we’re creating really an authentic sense of belonging for our candidates. Right. We need to give candidates an opportunity, like I mentioned earlier, to envision themselves as part of our work culture to feel that out, right. So that they can make a decision as to whether they can add value to our culture and feel really good about it. But I think it’s just so important that we put that diversity, equity and inclusion lens on everything that we think about under the umbrella of candidate experience. In fact, maybe inclusion and candidate experience should be synonymous.
Matt Alder [00:28:23]:
Absolutely. James, your final thoughts? What’s your one piece of advice?
James Saunders [00:28:26]:
So I’m going to go down a run to, you know, because a lot of stuff we talked about today is quite big picture. It’s expensive, but I think you need to do the basics really well. You actually, you asked me this question at the end of the podcast we did together a couple of months ago. So I’ll be consistent in answering the same way and say that you need to get the basics right around canva experience. So there’s no point having a fantastic looking career site and the functionality being poor. And I’m referring to things like, you know, really awful ATS integrations which put candidates off at that point of application, a lack of search engine optimization which stops them coming through Google and Google for Jobs and things like that. You know, a bad experience applying from. Indeed, these are all basics and I hope some of the listeners have got most of the basics right. But without those basics, you can’t do any of the things we’re talking about today. You really can’t. And we survey a lot of employer brands, a lot of career sites and a lot of employers still haven’t got the basics right. So it sounds a bit mundane, it sounds a bit boring, but get the basics right before you start doing some of this cool stuff.
Matt Alder [00:29:31]:
It’s such a critical thing and it’s something that gets missed so many times. Once more, that was a fantastic conversation and I hate the fact that I’ve got to, I’ve got to, got to finish it. I could carry on for at least another half an hour. So James Van, thank you so much for bringing your insights and experience to the conversation. I’ll ask you to turn your cameras and your mics off and I will invite Peter back to the stage for one last time to help me wrap all of this up.
James Saunders [00:30:00]:
Well, Matt, you’ve done all the heavy lifting and it’s been truly a remarkable experience. I’ve been following some of the commentary on social media about your interviews and discussions and it’s been universally not only positive but really exciting about some of the insights and ideas that have been discussed. So kudos to you, kudos to your 10 guests. They were terrific. To a person. How would you like to close out our session?
Matt Alder [00:30:32]:
I would like to close out by asking you very quickly what your, what your biggest takeaways been from listening in. Because we didn’t really sort of talk about the other than the titles of the discussions. We didn’t, I didn’t really share with you what the content was going to be. So I’m interested to know what you, what’s your biggest takeaway from the five discussions that you’ve, you’ve just heard?
James Saunders [00:30:52]:
I think at a 50,000 foot level, what I heard was that there is a determination on the part of both employers and solution providers to get the technology opportunity right. That there are things that technology can do, things that technology, at least given the state of the art today, cannot do. The key to success is to make sure that you understand the difference between the two and you focus on getting it right. I think if anything there’s a greater appetite to explore, to use Diane’s phrase, to reimagine what talent acquisition might be like. And I think that that will lead to even more exciting new ways to help candidates find the right employer and the and employers find the right candidates for their openings.
Matt Alder [00:31:52]:
My thanks to Diane and James and also a huge thank you to everyone at TA Tech for organizing the event. You can find all the episodes in this conference series on the Recruiting Future website at www.recruitingfuture.com. if you click on the Future Live category, you’ll see all five episodes in this series. We’ll also be running another live podcast conference towards the end of this year, so please get in touch if you want to get involved. You can subscribe to the Recruiting Future podcast in Apple Podcasts on Spotify or via your podcasting app of choice. Please also follow the show on Instagram. You can find us by searching for for Recruiting Future. As I said, you can search all the past episodes@recruiting future.com on that site. You can also subscribe to the mailing list to get the inside track about everything that’s coming up on the show.
Matt Alder [00:32:45]:
Thanks very much for listening.
Matt Alder [00:32:47]:
I’ll be back next time and I hope you’ll join me.
