Recruiting transformations are currently underway in many companies to solve both the problems of the present and create a vision of the future. Change is tough, and it’s always good to hear from talent acquisitions leaders who have been successful in innovating their company’s approach to recruiting.
My guest this week is Trent Cotton, Director of Talent Acquisition at BBVA. Trent has successful transformed BBVA’s approach to talent acquisition with the heavy influence of agile methodology and design thinking. He is now seeking Recruiting Utopia and has the vision to get there. This is a must-listen interview for everyone.
In the interview, we discuss:
▪ Adopting Agile and Design Thinking in talent acquisition
▪ The development of Sprint Recruiting
▪ Priorities and feedback loops
▪ The four principles of Sprint Recruiting
▪ WIP limits on candidate submissions
▪ Managing the change
▪ The role of recruiting technology
▪ What is Recruiting Utopia and how might we get there
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Transcript:
Matt Alder [00:00:00]:
Support for this podcast is provided by Cornerstone on Demand. Cornerstone is the world’s leading talent technology specialist, helping organizations drive people’s success in uncertain times. Their enterprise class talent acquisition platform, TalentLink supports recruiting teams with the challenges of today, helping clients to deliver digital first hiring experiences while guiding them in the shift to skills based hiring and their missions to build more diverse workforces globally. If engaging hiring and onboarding the very best people in today’s environment is important to you, visit www.corstoneondemand.co.uk and get in touch to find out why. TalentLink is the platform built for the smarter recruiter.
Matt Alder [00:01:12]:
Hi everyone, this is Matt Alder. Welcome to episode 316 of the Recruiting Future podcast. Recruiting transformations are currently underway in many companies to solve both the problems of the present and create a compelling vision of the future. Change is tough and it’s always good to hear from talent acquisition leaders who’ve been successful in innovating their company’s approach to recruiting. My guest this week is Trent Cotton, Director of talent acquisition at BBVA. Trent has successfully transformed BBVA’s approach to talent acquisition with a heavy influence of agile methodology and design thinking. He’s now seeking recruiting utopia and has the vision to get there. This is a must listen interview for everyone. Hi Trent and welcome to the podcast.
Trent Cotton [00:02:12]:
Hey, nice to be here Matt.
Matt Alder [00:02:14]:
An absolute pleasure to have you on the show. Could you just introduce yourself and tell us what you do?
Trent Cotton [00:02:20]:
Yes, I am Trent Cotton. I am the Director of Talent Acquisition for BBVA in the us So I am responsible for developing and leading the strategy and executing our recruiting strategy for the US Portion of the franchise of bbva. So it’s an international firm, but I get the pleasure of leading a team of Roughly, I think 27 recruiters here in the United States. So a little bit of fun, something different every day.
Matt Alder [00:02:49]:
Talk us through some of the recruiting challenges that you faced or that you’re currently facing.
Trent Cotton [00:02:55]:
I’m actually going to take us back. I think it’s about two years now. Prior to getting into recruiting, I was a banker and so I was already an outsider whenever I came into recruiting, took a chance, fell in love with it and it was late 2017 and I’ve been doing recruiting for well over 10 years by that point and I just kept seeing the same problems. I was leading a small team at the time and was honestly man, I was a little frustrated I was, I was kind of thinking at that point, is this something that I want to continue? Because this seems like a broken wheel. I don’t have any kind of creative solutions. Most of the solutions that I had researched at the time were just band aids and our organization was going through an agile transformation. So I was very lucky to attend some classes, week long trainings on design thinking, on the Agile methodology and Kanban, and went one step further and read the book by Jeff Sutherland called Scrum. And I was actually listening to it on a road trip. And as he was going through the Scrum methodology, I was like, okay, there’s my answer. I call it my eureka moment. And it was a way for us to be able to take the same agile methodology that has made companies like Apple and Google and all the sexy companies, how they’re able to develop products in a very quick, efficient manner that are client centric and deliver them to the market and be profitable. We were able to start in a very, very small framework building out what we call Sprint recruiting. Now. At the time we called it Agile recruiting, but Sprint sounded sexier to us. So we went with Sprint and we started kind of doing some beta testing with each of the different themes. But during the, kind of, during the thought process of what’s wrong with recruiting, I realized that there were four main pitfalls that I kept running into as a recruiter and also as a recruiting. The first one was that everything is a priority, which means nothing is a priority. You always have these chicken little managers that on Monday this job is top priority, this is the one that you need to focus on. And then 48 hours later the priorities change and we were losing a lot of focus, we were losing a lot of energy and efficiency, just constantly shifting gears. So that was one thing that as we were developing this methodology we wanted to address. The other is there was no direction or rhythm to the recruiting process. If you think about the Lucille Ball scene where she’s in the chocolate factory and they keep speeding up the belt and she’s stuffing chocolate everywhere, that’s kind of how I felt like the recruiting process was. There was no chance to stop and go, okay, where are we? What’s working, what’s not? There was no cadence. And then the third pitfall is that we felt like we were doing a good job. But whenever I spoke with our executives, we were completely misaligned. We were filling positions, but they weren’t the positions that the executive felt like they were the most successful. And then the other, the very last one is just A chaotic feedback loop. And I’m a data nerd. I think you and I kind of talked about my affinity for data and analytics and everything. So I pulled some information out of our ATS to chart our candidate journey. And it’s honestly one of the few times in my career that whenever I chart the data, the bottlenecks just are glaring. And there were two, and both of them had to do with receiving feedback on candidates that had either been presented and or interviewed by hiring managers. Our beta group that we were working with the line of business whenever I charted that journey was 67 days from the time an applicant expressed interest to the time that they either got an offer after they interview with the manager or were dispositioned out. And to me that was just, it was completely unsatisfactory. And that was not the type of candidate experience or manager experience that the team and I really felt that we wanted to deliver. So we developed the four principles of Sprint recruiting to overcome these pitfalls that we were constantly being thrown into chaotic distress over. The first one is that the business drives priority leveraging a point system. If you go to Scrum and if you go to Agile and do any kind of research, whenever they’re doing product development, they break everything into stories or sprints and then each, I guess, item or design of that particular product, they assign points to it so that way they can quantify how much progress they make. Sprint over Sprint. That’s what we do with our businesses. So, you know, let’s say for instance, you’re one of my line of business managers, or we call them Sprint owners, maybe a designee who is responsible for allocating our time for that particular department. And I sit down and go, hey Matt, you’ve got 25 open positions. You know, over the next two weeks you have 100 points. Where do you want us to spend our time? And what are the most critical roles that we need to fill in order for your business to be successful? And what this did for us is it allowed the business to define success. And our responsibility was not to try and use ESP or any other fancy little trick to figure out what was the most important to our business. We asked them and then we quantified it. So we allow them to define the success and we also allow them to drive the priority process and our time blocking and how we’re able to identify ways that we can scale to meet that level of success. So the next one is we took another agile competency, which is work in progress. Limits or wip. Limits is often what is used. So we’ve got three different swim lanes. In any recruiting, you’ve got the recruiter interview, you’ve got the next swim lane, which is hiring manager submitted or hiring manager review. So that’s whenever you’ve identified candidates, you send them over to the manager and you’re waiting on feedback as to whether or not they actually want to interview that person. And then, of course, the last swim lane is the hiring manager interview. What we do is we established WIP limits. So what WIP limits are, is once you reach that threshold, you stop until you receive feedback, which is one of our last core principles. But once you receive feedback, then you can put more people in the process. So our WIP limit for each one of those swim lanes is a maximum of five candidates. Because what we found is that we were working on positions, sending 15, 20 candidates, and we have some managers that were, hey, give me more, give me more, give me more. And we were losing candidates in the process. There were three or four different instances where we sent over an initial batch of candidates and they liked them, but they had the FOMO aspect of, hey, I want to see if there’s anybody else. So they stretch it out another four weeks identifying candidates, only to go back and hire one of the candidates out of that initial pool. So the WIP limits stop that. And what it does is it provides a cadence for us. So we’ve got our sprint, which is how we’re able to create some efficiencies. So we’ve got, every two weeks, our goal is to one, get the priority from our managers using the points, and then the next is we kind of look at how many candidates do we have in each one of those swim lanes. At our organization, we adopted a WIP limit of five. So if I. If I’m reviewing your jobs, Matt, and you’ve got your top priority is 50 points. And I look at the different swim lanes and you’ve got a max. You’ve already hit your max or your WIP limit. Five hiring manager interview set. And I’ve already sent you five for you to review in case those that you’re interviewing just don’t work out. I’ve already got five sitting in the hopper waiting for your review. Rather than doing what traditional recruiting does and continue to source, I stop because you’ve got 10 candidates in play, and I go on to your next one, which is 20 points. And I follow that same process. So rather than all of this chaos, all this misalignment, lack of communication between us and our client, we’ve got just this. I equate it to music. There’s this drumbeat that moves to our recruiting process that makes us a lot more efficient, takes a little bit of the stress down. And the other thing that I like is that there’s mutual accountability between us and our clients. So as a leader, a lot of times I felt like a daycare manager. I was listening to clients complain about recruiters, recruiters complaining about clients, and I had no way to quantify or qualify what was really going on in the process. Now I do. So if I’m looking at our reporting in our dashboard and I see that your top priority or 50 pointer is sitting at its width limit, and your boss calls and says, we’re not getting any traction on Matt’s position, now I can say, no, no, no, no. We need feedback on these candidates. So that way we’re not recreating a bad recruiting strategy. We want to make sure that we get it right. So once we get the feedback, we’ll continue to get more candidates. But right now, the ball is in your court. And the flip side of that happens too. Let’s say we’re just missing the mark and we have not hit our whip limits. As a leader, I can come in and meet with that recruiter and say, do you need sourcing help? Do you need other recruiters kind of working and helping you through some of the administrative process that’s, you know, kind of plagues every recruiting group. What do you need to be successful? And so it’s kind of created almost like this symphonic rhythm that we like that our candidate, our candidates like because they’re getting feedback and it’s a better process and our managers are more aligned with us. And I tell you, I will never go back. Never, never, never go back to traditional recruiting. It’s. This just works incredibly well and it’s created a lot of efficiencies for us to look forward and go, okay, now that we calm the noise and identified and addressed these four pitfalls, what’s next for us? How can we take this to the next level?
Matt Alder [00:13:06]:
Fantastic stuff. And I’m going to ask you about what’s next on the next level in a second. Before I do, though, the problems that you’ve described there with traditional recruiting will. Will be the reality for so many people listening talent acquisition leaders who are trying to get out of those problems and perhaps implement some of the solutions that you’ve. That you’ve talked through there. Two questions that immediately come to mind. Firstly, how did you manage the change from one state to the other, how did you engage with stakeholders? How did you manage to transform the way that you do recruiting? And then secondly, sort of related to that is what kind of results have you seen from it?
Trent Cotton [00:13:46]:
Oh, definitely. So when we were beta testing this, you know, I’ve been with a firm for 10 years, and I had two or three different organizations that I have supported as a recruiter, and I just went to them and said, hey, what we’re doing is not working. You agree? I agree. As leaders, can we try something different? Can we, can we test this? And if it doesn’t work, at least we know something that doesn’t work. But if it does, then, you know, your life will be easier, my life will be easier, and the organization will benefit as a result. So it was identifying first those groups that I could test that would be willing to not only test it, but honestly too. Matt, I wanted honest feedback. I mean, this was something that I was creating. I mean, there were times I was excited, times that I was thinking, okay, this sounds. This sounds kind of harebrained. I don’t even know if this will work. And then once we did that, we had those three and went through our different iterations to find what we call Sprint recruiting. Now, once we had that, we actually leveraged those beta testers, those departments, as we were rolling it out through the bank. And if it was a large department, we may take one of the departments that was a little bit more innovative and feedback radical. They were willing to give a lot more radical feedback and help us fine tune it for that particular division. And then they became our cheerleaders. My favorite story, I think, is when we decided to roll this out to our branch system, or we call it our network system. High turnover, high volume, needs to be quick. And I was excited and a little apprehensive because we’d only been doing it a year for the rest of the bank. And I was thinking, okay, this is going to be a real test. And we did four regions in two different areas of the company or country, and we went through, I think, two sprints. And I remember getting on the third sprint call and kind of going through and doing what we call a retro. So every two weeks we meet with our client and say, let’s review. How many points did we close? What were some obstacles? What were some things that we learned that we can iterate into the next sprint to be even more successful? And in the third sprint is usually whenever we would bring in maybe two more districts. And one of our biggest critics, we decided, let’s bring this person in on the pilot because they’ll give us feedback whether we like it or not, which is what we need to be successful. And I remember that the two new people that came in, I was going over kind of how the meeting was going to go and that critic turned into our cheerleader. And I was sitting on the other side of the phone just like flabbering. I wish I could have taken a picture with my face, honestly, because I know that my jaw was on the ground going, okay, what just happened here? I mean, this is surreal. And so I guess one is identify stakeholders who are going to be innovative enough and open minded enough to try something new. But most importantly, find partner who will be able to give you the feedback to help work through this. And for me, that’s kind of the thing that I like is that this is not just something that, you know, Trent built. It was me, it was our recruiting team, it was our clients. All of this feedback and everything that we put into this is now something that works, but it’s something that we built. And I think that is probably one of the most important things to try and strive for. Now. What, what results have we seen? It’s been, it’s been an interesting, interesting ride. We’ve been able to drop in some of our key areas once, once a job goes into Sprint, we’re actually, in most cases we’re able to put a lot of resources around it and increase the focus of our recruiters to find the right candidate. And we’ve been able to in some of our departments, cut time to fill by the third Sprint time to fill, we’ve been able to cut it by 25%. And speaking of time to fill, I have not talked about time to fill as a metric in our organization in well over a year. Everything now, clients talk about it, HR partners talk about it. We talk about it as how many points do we get against how many were budgeted? And that’s what we track. So the metrics are really, really interesting for us to be able to manage our capacity to show success and to create a common language with our managers. The other thing I think that kind of came up, it was not planned, but things were kind of humming along and I remember thinking to myself, I need to stress test this before I start telling other organizations about it. And I kid you not, not a week later, the pandemic became front and center. Everybody was deployed home. Of course, companies started looking at their open positions and trying to evaluate what do we need to keep open, what do we not. And we had to do the same thing. And I was thinking, I remember thinking to myself, okay, this is going to make or break our little sprint methodology. And it actually functioned better in the pandemic than it did in normal because we had less jobs with more points and we were able to get them filled quicker because they were so critical for us to be able to continue to meet the needs of our clients. And it’s been a very, very interesting ride. And so now we’re looking to the future. What is it? All these efficiencies that it’s been able to create for us as a team, where can we use that extra capacity to enhance the manager experience and enhance the candidate experience, which we call our client obsession?
Matt Alder [00:19:25]:
Talk us through the feature in a bit, in a bit more detail, particularly in the light of developments in recruitment technology, Artific intelligence, machine learning. What’s your vision for the future?
Trent Cotton [00:19:37]:
Oh, God, we could talk about this for an hour. I totally geek out whenever it comes to AI and machine learning, and I call it my recruiting utopia. So let me kind of paint the vision and then I’ll talk to you about the tools that I look at and how I evaluate them. But what I would love is to be able to have a recruiting team that spends so much more time evaluating and developing and maintaining a portfolio of talent. So that way we begin doing a plug and play with talent rather than a post and pray, which is a reactive. That utopia would have a recruiter that, let’s say it’s Monday, they get a job, they do an intake, they go and they post it, and they start working on all the ones that are in their sprint, making sure that we have process progress going with each of our candidates and all of our critical roles. They go home, have a glass of wine, great work, life balance. They come in the next day and they’ve got automatically, while they were sleeping, they’ve got interviews with amazingly qualified candidates that were sourced for them, evaluated, ranked and sitting on their calendar. And all they have to do is look at the 360 view. So resume, you know, maybe some questionnaires, maybe some assessments, and really dig into not just is this person a good fit, but more importantly, is this the right career move for that candidate? Because now I think recruiters are looking at checkbox. Okay, do they have these four qualifications? Yes. Fantastic. Let me interview them, let me ask them a couple of questions about it, let me send it over to the manager, and that’s well and good, but that’s not what. That’s not My recruiting utopia, my recruiting vision for our team, now that we’ve got some capacity, is that we take that and we’re able to go and sit down almost like you would meet with a financial advisor and say, look, there are thousands of stocks, thousands of mutual funds with these based off of what you need and what you told me your goals are. This is how I think that you should do. So develop they, you know, they develop a financial plan. I want our team to be able to develop a talent plan for all of our managers. That’s my utopia. If you look at the recruiting process in order to get there, you’ve got a whole bunch of admin stuff that’s done on the front side of starting a recruiting strategy. And you’ve got a whole bunch that goes through the process of everything from scheduling interviews to answering frequently asked questions to, you know, once the candidate says, I do, you’re not done, you’ve got to go and chase them down for paperwork and manage the onboarding experience. And because of all that process, we lose that human touch because we’re trying to get everything done. So in order for the utopia to work, that’s why I geek out on the AI and machine learning. There are so many fantastic technologies out there that whenever you post a position, it’ll parse some of the main qualities and qualifications out of that job. And it’ll do a three pronged strategy. So one, it’ll focus on your internal talent who may have just, you know, maybe they just got a degree in computer engineering, but they’re in our case, you know, I work for a bank, maybe they’re just a teller now, but they want to go in there, go into the engineering side. The way that it stands now, chances are they’ll look outside of our organization. I want a tool that goes and identifies that. They change that on their LinkedIn or their resume or something in our HRIS and we go and engage them and say, here’s an opportunity, I think you might be interested in it. Same thing goes for applicants. We recently had to change from one APS to another and there were over 400,000 resumes sitting in our old data, our old applicant tracking system. And all I could think of is there are so many qualified candidates sitting there and we have no way to discover them outside of some Boolean search strings that, you know, it can be a little bit complicated to use within an ATS that are just not built for that. But how cool would it be to have an AI that goes in there and searches people who have already expressed an interest in your brand and engages them and says, hey, here’s a job, I think you might be interested. And then also on the passive side, going out looking for passive candidates. So that scenario, that recruiting utopia where I said on Monday that they post the job and AI picks up all those three different activities and initiates the process while our team members go and start, or I guess in most cases continue to work on those that they already have in process. So all of that’s going on in the background. And then once that candidate hits yes, I’m interested, then the AI chatbot begins to evaluate them, tells them about the job, sells them on the brand, shows them videos, continues to qualify them and even rank them. And those that meet a certain score are automatically booked with the recruiter that is covering that particular position. So whenever I come in, my day is planned with seven fantastic candidates that I’ve got their resume, I’ve got all the answers to the questions that I designed that the AI asked while I was asleep. And now I can have a true career discussion with that candidate. And how much more awesome of an experience would that be as a candidate? Not just to kind of feel like you’re on a speed dating thing, but to really have someone sit down and say, I know you’re interested in this role, but I really think, listening to your passion, I really think that you might be interested in this one over here. It might be a better fit. So that’s not only good for the candidate, but it’s also good as a company because that, that’s going to help us on the retention side. And that’s the true value that I think that recruiters can bring. Whenever we eliminate that front end of the process of all the admin and the sourcing and all that other kind of stuff, not to say that all sourcing needs to be done by AI, I still think there’s a human touch, there’s networks, there’s work in your own portfolio. It’s just having an AI be able to do that for you gives you more time to nurture the portfolio and the network that you’ve already developed. So let’s fast forward to whenever the candidate says I do and they’re coming onto your firm, you could also have an AI that goes and continues to engage them through the process. And let’s face it, this market is incredibly competitive. It’s tough. You’ve got a lot of competing factors, and Covid has not helped us whatsoever with those competing factors. But to have something that’s constantly sending you or not constantly, but within a certain timeframe. Hey, have you learned about the new firm that you’re joining? Here’s their stance on dni, here is their commitment to the community. Hey, I noticed that you haven’t completed all of your tax forms. Did you want to click here and I can go ahead and take you and we can go ahead and get that knocked out. That’s such a smoother process to where the candidate is being engaged 247 they’re available, they can go and ask these frequently asked questions and then the recruiters can go and spend time to actually just kind of do a nice warm chicken versus did I send them the new hire email? Did I send them the benefit stuff? They know that all that stuff is automated. So again, it’s adding that human value. The real stuff that I get like really, really jazzed about is all the analytics that come out as a result of that. So imagine being able to fill this particular role, let’s say software engineer, and you fill 10 of them using this new fantastic process. You’ve got 10 awesome candidates. The managers are ecstatic. Candidates are ecstatic. The recruiter feels, man, I did a great job. And then just whenever you think the AI could not get any better, it sends you a report and says, hey Trent, you do realize that the last 10 people that you hire came from this kind of a background, whether it’s a firm, an education, a concentration in education, you know, other factors that I don’t even want to limit what kind of information it could give us. But to be able to take that and to develop an offensive recruiting strategy. So sit down with the manager and 90 days in, hey, do you like those 10 that we just hired for you? Yes. Well, great. Here are based off of the analytics, here are some suggestions that I have about how do we continue to develop this pool. So the next time you have an opening, we’ve already got the person identified, you know, we just need to put them through maybe a go have a coffee rather than do a full extensive interview and we can get that position filled. Rather than five weeks, maybe we can get it down to two or three. Let them put in their two week notice. That that part, that’s where I want to get to. And so everything that I’m evaluating now is does it fit with that recruiting utopia where my manager is absolutely thrilled and sees us as a partner and not an obstacle and our candidates see us as a trusted talent advisor. That’s the day that I’m trying to get to. And every machine learning or AI product that I review. I look at it through that lens. I’m a little passionate about this topic.
Matt Alder [00:28:48]:
If you couldn’t tell, Matt, I’m sorry, please don’t apologize. I absolutely love your vision of recruiting Utopia there. It’s somewhere that we absolutely, absolutely, we absolutely need to get to, to get the most out of the technology that’s coming down the line. And I suppose that leads on to my next question. So in terms of the sort of the evaluation that you’re doing against the, the vision that you’ve got, how close are we to this? How close can we get to recruiting utopia with the tools that we’ve got? Where do you think the gaps are and how long till we reach this, this kind of sense of perfection?
Trent Cotton [00:29:23]:
We have the tools already out there. I mean, I could, I could rattle off a couple of vendors right off the top of my head, because right now I’m looking at the beginning of the funnel, that engagement recruiting process. Onboarding would be next. There are already fantastic competitors out there for any level of firms. So I would encourage anyone, I mean, if you want to find me on LinkedIn and ask me for some, some advice, you know, ping me, let me know. I can, I can kind of direct you and a couple of the vendors of choice for me. So the technology is already out there. Matt, My concern is, and I guess my angst frustration as a recruiting leader is when in the heck are the ATS groups going to get caught up? There are a couple out there I know, like ISIMS has gone and acquired a couple of this type of technology. We’ve got to get the system that, the system of record, the one that we all use all the. To go from. How do we track paper, which is how most of them were built, to how do we engage our candidates, our recruiting team, and our managers in a fluid process? And how can we do it in a way that the AI and machine learning, all of that stuff’s already built into it? To me, it’s just, it’s unfathomable that we do not have two or three applicant tracking systems out there that are just duking it out to say, hey, you don’t need a CRM, a separate CRM. You don’t need a separate, separate applicant tracking system or a data group or AI or machine learning. We have it all. Even if it’s beta, I’d be willing to give it a shot and just test it out, but I’ve yet to find one out there that has that. So to answer your first question, the technology is already out there. To answer your second question, what are the obstacles? The obstacles are most of the time archaic HRIS groups and our African tracking systems just not getting caught up with of the trend.
Matt Alder [00:31:22]:
Final question, what would your advice be to talent acquisition leaders who are out there who are looking at their strategies for 2021, 2022, considering technologies and transforming their recruiting? And I know a lot of people who are listening are doing that. What would your headline advice be to them in terms of how they can move forward to towards this recruiting utopia?
Trent Cotton [00:31:47]:
Well, it would be to reverse engineer where they want to be and then look at it whenever they’re evaluating these different applications, justifying it against what that end goal is. So you know, I outline my goal. That’s for a pretty large banking group here in the United States. You know, if I’m looking at a 50 to 100 member company, it may not need to be that big or extensive. Maybe my pain points are different. So I would challenge everyone to kind of go through that design thinking process of who is my client, not what, what are my problems, what are their problems and then fall in love with their problems, not the solution. That’s a lot of times I think what happens with a lot of leaders is they go and look for a solution that they think will be great and then they deploy it and the client hates it. One of the core themes of Agile and Scrum and all this new stuff, it’s not necessarily new but HR, it’s kind of new because we’re usually 10 years behind the curve. But one of the things that I love about it quote wise is it says fall in love with the problem, not the solution. If my problem that my client has is that, you know, it’s not a seamless recruiting process that’s a little ambiguous. I would sit down and meet with my client and have like a focus group and say let’s try it out. What keeps you up at night? You know, if they’re at if their problem or you know, their gap is I don’t know how I’m going to be able to attract the talent that I need five years from now. That’s a totally different solution that you need to look for versus you know, every time I bring somebody on the technology is never right. So always start with what, how do you solve for your clients needs? And then once you have that then you start evaluating the solutions. It’s a little counterintuitive for how most HR people approach things.
Matt Alder [00:33:48]:
Trent, thank you very much for talking to me.
Trent Cotton [00:33:50]:
I thoroughly enjoyed it, Matt. Thank you.
Matt Alder [00:33:52]:
My thanks to Trent Cotton. You can subscribe to this podcast in Apple Podcasts on Spotify or via your podcasting app of choice. Please also follow the show on Instagram. You can find us by searching for Recruiting Future. You can search through all the past episodes@recruitingfuture.com on that site. You can also subscribe to the mailing list to get the inside track about everything that’s coming up on the show. Thanks very much for listening. I’ll be back next time and I hope you’ll join me.
