In this episode Matt Alder talks to Ina Bourmer of Goodgame Studios
Tech Recruiting is a hot topic at the moment for a vast majority of employers. I’ve been doing a lot of research recently into the similarities of the challenges in this area in different markets and geographies and very consistent themes are coming through.
My guest for this episode is Ina Bourmer Head of HR and Talent Acquisition for Goodgame Studios in Germany. Goodgame Studios is currently the fastest growing employer in Europe in the games sector and they are recruiting talent from 21 countries into their Hamburg HQ with a 100% direct sourcing model.
In the interview we discuss:
• The techniques they use to get a 60% response rate and 40% interest rate from their proactive sourcing
• How their onboarding team start working with candidates at first interview stage to help with the persuasion process
• The benefits of candidate experience SLAs
Ina also talks about the importance of People Analytics and what she is looking forward to at HR Tech World Congress in October
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Transcript:
Matt Alder [00:00:00]:
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Matt Alder [00:00:52]:
Hi everyone, this is Matt Alder. Welcome to episode 26 of the Recruiting Future podcast. Tech recruitment is an extremely hot topic at the moment and for this week’s interview I wanted to get a broader European perspective on the issues. My guest is Ina Bourmer, Head of HR and Talent Acquisition at Goodgame Studios in Germany. Goodgame Studios are currently the fastest growing employer in the gaming industry in Europe and they have some very innovative approaches to ensuring they get the talent they want.
Matt Alder [00:01:26]:
Hi everyone and welcome to another Recruiting Future podcast interview. My guest this morning is Ina Bourmer from Goodgame Studios. Hi Ina, how are you?
Ina Bourmer [00:01:39]:
Good morning, man, how are you?
Matt Alder [00:01:40]:
Yes, I’m very good. It’s a sunny day up in Scotland where I am today. What’s the weather like in Germany?
Ina Bourmer [00:01:47]:
Well, it was great until I think about half an hour ago. Now it’s. Hope you didn’t bring the rain.
Matt Alder [00:01:55]:
Yeah, no, it wasn’t my fault, I assure you.
Matt Alder [00:01:58]:
So could you just give us a.
Matt Alder [00:01:59]:
Little bit of context on your background and what your role is at Goodgame Studios?
Ina Bourmer [00:02:06]:
Yes, be happy to do that. Well, originally I’m a computer scientist, so I studied computer science a long time ago, I must admit, and I did that, was into computer science for about 11 or 12 years. So I did programming and in the end I was the lead for the whole development of our small software company. But from there on I started to go into the headhunting business and I did that for another 12 or 13 years on a self employed basis. But I still stick to the technology. So for big companies like Microsoft, Oracle, NetApp, EMC, so the storage, Dell computers and the last seven years or. Yeah, seven years more or less, I was pretty much into Dell as a headhunter still. Then I switched to the Deutsche Telekom where I was in charge for the recruiting there. And after approximately four years I went to Microsoft and there was the recruiting Talent acquisition lead, that’s how we call it, Talent acquisition lead and human resources marketing There. Okay, there. Then I received a call from headhunting agency that asked me to maybe consider Goodgame Studios. Where at first I said Goodgame Studios, never heard of it. So no. But then we got to know Goodgame Studios better and yes, I ended up joining goodgame studios about 10 months ago now and it was pretty exciting time. So I moved from actually to Hamburg where I’m now, and now after a couple of weeks where I was at first in charge of the talent acquisition, just like at Microsoft. Now I’m the head of human resources, so it’s more or less responsible for HR and talent acquisition.
Matt Alder [00:04:04]:
Thank you. Thanks for giving us the background there. And for listeners who might not be familiar with Goodgame Studios, could you tell us a bit about who they are and what they do?
Ina Bourmer [00:04:18]:
Of course. Goodgame Studios is only six years old, so we used to be a startup and right now we are more than 1200 employees, more or less. 1300 employees in six years only. So we’re Germany’s largest employer in the gaming industry and we are a gaming company who produces mobile and browser games. And actually we are Europe’s fastest growing company and also the most successful in that industry.
Matt Alder [00:04:50]:
Wow, that sounds like it will have been an exciting place to be then. So in terms of sort of, you know, tech recruitment, the people that you’re looking for in the German market, I’m presuming like there are in the UK and indeed in the us there are skill shortages. What are the skill shortages like in tech in the German market and what problems do they cause?
Ina Bourmer [00:05:22]:
Well, as a tech company who is active in the fast moving consumer market, it’s really important to have the right set of skills. But as we are looking for more or less the same skills that a lot of companies in the technical market are looking for, of course it’s not that easy, but as we are looking for skills globally, we still have not run into problems. We’re looking for the best people there. And that’s more what causes us a little, I wouldn’t say problem, but which is, which really makes it a little bit difficult for us and leads us to having to think about new ideas, how to really approach those people, but even more, how to really get them to move, to relocate to Germany.
Matt Alder [00:06:15]:
Okay, and what sort of particular strategies do you put in place to do that, to persuade the best people to join you and if necessary, relocate. What kind of strategies and tactics have you put in place to make that work?
Ina Bourmer [00:06:35]:
I think the biggest or the most important strategies that we have is that we have we call it like a really good recruiting cycle. So we start to do everything in house from the very beginning. So we do not outsource anything because we think we’re very flexible and faster compared to if we do it with other. Just looking for the English word.
Matt Alder [00:07:00]:
Recruitment agencies.
Ina Bourmer [00:07:01]:
Yeah, recruiting agents or other suppliers. Thank you very much.
Matt Alder [00:07:04]:
That’s okay.
Ina Bourmer [00:07:05]:
But I think the strategy is that we really know the market globally. So our sources. We have a pretty big sourcing team right now. It consists about 25 people that do nothing than sourcing the whole world. For example, we know where all the flashers sit or which companies have the best unity programmers, etc. So they really know the market pretty well and they have a great, great network. So we approach the candidates no matter if we have a position right now or if we have maybe one in two or three months time and we try to contact them pretty early. And the people like our story, they want to become a part of our success story. So they like talking to us. And I don’t tell you any secrets. If I tell you that we have a really big response rate of about 60% if we talk to people in the business networks and people that really know that business know that that’s a big, big number and that interest rate lies somewhere between 40, about 40% more or less. So that’s really, really good. And when we approach those people, then after the first interview, when we think that that person is really a very good potential candidate, we already include our onboarding team. So after the first interview, our onboarding team gets to know the candidate and asks them questions like would you move with your family? Do you have a family? And which kind of, which kind of status level in your career are you right now? Would you move on your own or with your family? What’s important for you? Do you have kids? What is the age of those kids, etc. So we really know after that first interview that if that kind of wants to join us, what we have to do because it gets more and more important, especially if you look for senior people that you don’t only care for them but for their family. And you have to make sure that the kids get a good education here in Germany, for example, sample and which we recommend them the appropriate school depending on the languages that they have, depending on the age, of course. So we really take care of the candidate very, very upfront.
Matt Alder [00:09:28]:
Okay, I think that’s really interesting. That’s obviously certainly an excellent approach. Do you think that sort of, that, that personal touch and that that focus on. On the family is a. Is a kind of a big motivation for you being successful in recruiting. What do you think the. What do you think the sort of key. Key things that influence people to come and work for you would be?
Ina Bourmer [00:09:57]:
I think the salary and benefits and all the. I would say it’s basic stuff. I mean, it has to be correct. It has to be right. The people have to get a good salary and all the benefits. But I think the most important is that they feel that they fit to our culture and that we really have that personal touch. We get so many letter from candidates that joined us, but also candidates that haven’t joined us for whatever personal reason that they really felt like they were employees from the very beginning. So they really understood that we took care of them, that we cared about them. And yes, the family is a huge part of them. For example, we have just recently hired a couple. I think it already happened two times. So the candidate that we had said, well, my wife or my spouse or my partner also would like to join me. And don’t you have a job for him or her? And in one case we actually had. They came from the same business. And in another case, we knew that it was a teacher. And we have a close cooperation. Collaboration with a school here, with an international school. And they’re always looking for teachers from all over the world.
Matt Alder [00:11:13]:
We know that. Yeah.
Ina Bourmer [00:11:14]:
So. So then we could just, you know, then we didn’t hire that. That partner, but we made sure that the partner had a contact to that school. So, yes, I think it’s a very, very big motivator. And on the same side, sometimes it happens. We have a great candidate and everything seems to fit, but then the partner says, no, I don’t want to move because for family. So I think, yes, it’s one of the motivators, especially when it comes to foreign employees.
Matt Alder [00:11:41]:
What percentage of. Of your have to have to relocate? Is most of your hiring done outside, you know, outside where you’re based? What’s the. What’s the sort of split?
Ina Bourmer [00:11:54]:
Right now we have about 30. 30 to 30% of international employees. And if you look at. I just have to look at my. My September numbers. Okay, hold on. Because they’re really, really interesting. To give you an idea of what we hired so far in September, 80% of the candidates that are starting actually come from 21 different nations.
Matt Alder [00:12:22]:
Wow.
Ina Bourmer [00:12:23]:
So 80% foreign candidates, 21 different nations. And we’re having 37 house searches. So we’re looking for accommodations together with them. And we care for 22 work permits. So this gives you a pretty good idea of what we do actually. And yes, that we already have a global. Yeah, a global and international company, although we are mostly located in Hamburg.
Matt Alder [00:12:50]:
Thank you for sharing those numbers. That’s, that’s really, really interesting. Just you mentioned that you’ve kind of got a large, a large team of sources and you know, there are a lot of sort of tools and technologies and things coming onto the market to help with, you know, to help with, to help with recruiting, you know, what’s your view on the tools that are available? Is there anything that you use that’s particularly success or do the sources kind of rely on their own experience to find the candidates you’re looking for?
Ina Bourmer [00:13:29]:
Well, there are of course a lot of platforms where we’re looking at like projects or for arts people. Of course we look at the art portfolios. So there are a lot of platforms that we use. But to be honest, that we rely mostly on the expertise of our sources. We train them. They use things like, of course, the normal Boolean search. They really use X rays search to get hold of people that you don’t see that maybe don’t have a very good profile in LinkedIn or other business platforms. So we try to find them using Boolean searches and X ray searches, more or less. But the network is really important. We have a lot of internal referrals as well. We just ramped up our internal referral to about 25 to 30% and these are really the most successful referrals that we have.
Matt Alder [00:14:27]:
Interesting. That’s definitely quite an impressive number. One of the reasons that we’re talking today is that you’re talking at the HR Tech World Congress in October. What, what are you sort of particularly looking forward to about that event? Is there anyone you want to hear from? Any ideas you’re sort of interested in being discussed in Paris in October?
Ina Bourmer [00:14:59]:
Yes, of course. First of all, of course this is a very good platform to first of all discuss with other professionals, but to learn and share as well. And what I’m really interested in is looking more into people analytics, because what I will share with the others is to really look at the whole recruiting cycle and to really have an idea where to use which tool or just which technique. And for example, just to give you an example, what we’re really doing right now is we’re using the people analytics more or less only in the recruiting things. So we’re looking at the whole funnel, trying to find out where the gap is. For example, right now we have lots and lots of really good interviews. So the hiring managers really like what we’re delivering. But then there’s a gap to the hires. So somewhere in between, between something seems to miss out. That’s what we look at. But also we use people analytics to have an idea or to let’s say steer the candidate manager or the recruiters because they get like a small light system. It’s just like green, red and yellow which shows from the candidate perspective. When was the candidate last touch touched and why? Maybe there wasn’t a feedback to candidates profile which we forwarded to a hiring manager, maybe let’s say for a week or so. So we’re setting up SLAs and KPIs for us, but as well as the managers. So when should they give feedback and when should we come back to the candidate again? So a candidate turns red whenever One of those SLAs is not met.
Matt Alder [00:16:37]:
Okay, that’s really interesting. So the candidate experience is obviously a very, a very important part of what you do.
Ina Bourmer [00:16:48]:
Yes, we switched. First of all, I think for the last half year or so we looked at, you know, we just tried to fill the positions as fast as we could. Right now the focus is of course to learn recruiting and getting the right people. But we think it’s more important that we get the best candidate. And I don’t have to tell you, you’re an expert as well. You lose candidates so quickly if you don’t take care of them, if they don’t feel treated respectfully. And we try to get to get to them, even though maybe we might not have a new status on something, but we just keep them informed and say, well, there’s not a new status but. And they like that because on their side it’s not about having the fastest recruiting process, it’s the most transparent one and the one where you’re really treated, being treated respectfully. And that’s what we try to achieve.
Matt Alder [00:17:38]:
That makes a, that makes a lot of sense. So sort of finally, what’s. What’s next for you guys? What, what are the next 12 months? What are the next 12 months look like? What, what’s on your kind of horizon on your pipeline?
Ina Bourmer [00:17:53]:
The pipeline is first to really ensure the people analytics part for all the stakeholders, for example, the hiring managers, what do they want to see, etc. And we have to do that on our own because I haven’t. Maybe you do, but I haven’t yet known a single recruiting tool that is perfect. So what’s perfect for us is if they have a really good interface where we can do our own stuff and try to analyze. So yeah, the pipeline for the next 12 months is really to get a good steering tool which is made of our own for the different stakeholders, recruiters, candidate management, sources, and of course the management and the hiring managers. That’s the one thing. But also apart from recruiting, we’re going to look at the retention because now we’re in a critical phase. We’re six years old and if we don’t have good opportunities for our employees, of course then they might leave. So we don’t want to get into the status where that happens. So up front, as we do in the recruiting as well, we try to find good ideas to really have a good retention system.
Matt Alder [00:19:09]:
Ina, thank you very much for talking to me.
Ina Bourmer [00:19:12]:
Me. You’re welcome, Matt.
Matt Alder [00:19:14]:
My thanks to Ina Bourmar. My thanks also to the guys at HR Tech World Congress for their help in arranging the interview. Their event is taking place in Paris in October and you can find out more@hrtechcongress.com for show notes and past episodes of this podcast, please go to www.rfpodcast.com. you can also subscribe to the mailing list there and find out more about me on the Work with Matt Alder page. You can, of course, subscribe to the podcast itself on itunes and also on Stitcher. Thanks very much for listening. I’ll be back next week and I hope you’ll join me.
