In this Episode Matt Alder talks to Andy Headworth Consultant and author of the major new book on Social Recruiting
Social Recruiting has been around now for nearly ten years but many companies are still struggling to use social platforms for recruitment in a successful way. In this interview Matt and Andy discuss social recruiting, how it is changing and what it takes to be successful in social. Andy also shares some great case studies from round the world, which he found while researching his forthcoming book.
Links:
“Social Media Recruitment: How to successfully integrate social media into recriutment strategy” – Andy’s book
“Social Recruiting 5 Things to Stop Doing” – Matt’s latest Social Recruiting blog
Subscribe to this podcast in iTunes
Transcript:
Matt Alder [00:00:00]:
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Matt Alder [00:00:44]:
Hi and welcome to episode nine of the Recruiting Future podcast. I’ve been working with social recruiting for about seven years now and I always find it very valuable to share thoughts with others in the space. One person whose views I particularly respect is Andy Headworth and he’s about to publish a book on social recruiting. And in this interview we talk about the background to the book and the findings Andy has made researching it.
Matt Alder [00:01:10]:
Hi everyone and welcome to another Recruiting Future podcast interview. My guest today is Andy Headworth. Andy is a consultant in the social recruiting space, although I’m sure he can introduce himself a lot better than I can introduce him. And he is recently publishing a book, book on social recruiting. Hi Andy, how are you?
Andy Headworth [00:01:33]:
I’m Matt. Fine, thanks. Yeah. Good, that’s good.
Matt Alder [00:01:35]:
Do you want to sort of introduce yourself a bit better than I did and tell us basically give us the background behind the book?
Andy Headworth [00:01:40]:
Yep. Yeah. Very simply my background is recruitment and that’s, that’s the fundamental part of it. Been doing it for a long time now. For the last seven or eight years I’ve been consulting with both companies, both sides of the fence, both recruiters and corporates on helping them understand social, putting it into a recruitment strategy, looking at the recruitment process and everything wrapped around that. And I’m trying to think that when it was February last year, I was approached by the publishers, code and page who were looking at obviously new titles. And one of the editors that were coming that approached me had just come out of the CIPDO and knew that the space, the whole space around social media and recruiting was still there was a big gap. Everyone was asking the questions within the HR community and yet no one had any tangible books. Of course, HR loved books, so they wanted to create a book. That’s when they approached me and said, we want to do this. Is it something you’d be interested in? So having written one three years ago and sworn blind to you personally that I’d never do one ever again, which I did, I said yeah, that’s a good idea. Let’s do one. That was March last year and it was finished and handed over in October. Cool.
Matt Alder [00:03:00]:
So quite a long period of research. I know you were talking to lots of people and sort of looking all over the world for case studies. Was it easy to pull together or did it sort of take a significant amount of time?
Andy Headworth [00:03:12]:
I think it comes down to it did and it didn’t. I think the experience of the likes of what we and I, you know, you and I do, we travel the world speaking to different companies and networking with different people from different parts of the world. It does give us access to things, companies and people that we get access to and gives us examples of case studies, etc. So that comes with the territory and what we do as a job in terms of putting it together. I think with all these things, it was some careful planning. I learned a lot this time from the one I wrote last time, three years ago to get the planning in early, to make sure that you get the interviews in early. And you’d think the same way with some of the things you’ve done. And it was very much a question of get that done for the first two or three months, making sure that you have all the case studies agreed and signed off, and permissions, more importantly, and then you can start constructing the book and putting it together.
Matt Alder [00:04:07]:
Cool. And so, I mean, having spent a long time in this space and having done all this research, I think one of the questions that I get asked quite a lot, or one of the kind of things that I have to deal with, is people’s kind of misinterpretation of what social recruiting is. What would your definition be and has it changed since you sort of did the research around this book?
Andy Headworth [00:04:33]:
That’s a good question, Matt.
Matt Alder [00:04:36]:
That’s my job to ask them.
Andy Headworth [00:04:38]:
I get asked the same one every time as well. I would say. Has it changed? Yes, it has. I try and give it two parts. The obvious one is it’s utilizing different social media networks as part or integrated into your recruiting strategy. But I think that was what it was probably three or four or five years ago. And that’s still, for many people, the basic definition, however, I think the important part, which is people, when they miss, is the fact that yes, you can have social media, but doing social recruiting properly is about being social. It’s about the communication, it’s about the engagement, what social network and what platform you’re doing that on. It doesn’t matter whether it’s LinkedIn, Twitter or whatever. But the fact you have to have people there who understand the audience, who understand how to engage with people and recognize that engagement and taking it forward to the next stage, which I think people, it’s a very subtle difference and I don’t think there’s still a lot of people still not getting that, especially in some of the mainstream or less mainstream areas.
Matt Alder [00:05:40]:
Yeah, I would agree with that as well. And I think that the networks and what you can do on them and their commercial focus is changing all the time. You know, I get the sense that people aren’t necessarily sort of keeping up to date with all of that. So, you know, of the people that you sort of spoke to, you know who’s doing it. Well, what were the best case studies that you, that you came across in the book? If you can give us a sneak preview.
Andy Headworth [00:06:08]:
Of course, of course I will, yeah. I mean, firstly, I’d say I made a point of when writing for it. The brief was originally sort of looking at not just the UK focus but keeping it, you know, in our locale, so to speak, in the European region. But I was very keen to try and look at every continent if possible, to try and get examples from every single one. I did fail with China and Russia, but I got most of them. So we looked at. I’ll just take you on a quick round world trip from where I started at. So the obvious one, the big global one you and I both know about is ups. So when we talk about social media and mobile, it’s by far and above they are streets ahead of everybody else and doing some fantastic stuff and that was a fascinating time. So ups, if anyone’s looking for a mobile strategy or a social recruiting case study is still out there and I don’t think it’s been bettered yet. Matt, you’re a better person to say than me. But then we looked at. So in Canada there was a company called Earls, so Earl, that’s E A R L S, They’re a family owned restaurant chain across the whole of Canada. Been going for I think 30, 40 years. And what I liked about them is that they don’t have a recruitment team. They have one head of recruitment and I think she has an assistant. They have all these restaurants across Canada and they focus on employer brand, so they focus on using social Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn video and look at the employer brand of the business across the whole of Canada and they direct people back to the local restaurants for their interviews and for their applications because they look to find, hey, that’s interesting. In their local community. So they use social to attract, to engage and they push them back to where they live in the locale, which is really. And it works. It’s been working fantastic well. And some of the stuff they’ve done is just brilliant. It’s interesting because they’re now expanding into North America. I’d be really keen to see if that still works in North America.
Matt Alder [00:08:14]:
Yeah, yeah, no, that’s. That’s a really interesting one.
Andy Headworth [00:08:18]:
So in terms of. So that was Canada. Down in Australia, we’ve got Campbell’s Arnotts. Who are the people behind those? Is it Tim Tam cookies? The chocolate, where you put it in a coffee and.
Matt Alder [00:08:32]:
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I know. Yes, yes. You can’t. You can’t get them in Europe at all.
Andy Headworth [00:08:36]:
No, you can’t.
Matt Alder [00:08:37]:
Yes. But I know lots of Australians who go mad for them.
Andy Headworth [00:08:41]:
So really interesting story with them. So they started two years ago from a standing start, classic sort of situation where the marketing owned the brand. Very, very powerful. I think they had 98% brand recognition in Australia, New Zealand. It was something horrendously high, near 100%. And they didn’t any of the social media activities to reflect on the potential damaging of the big brand. So that was a challenge. So you had two recruiters, effectively, who started from day one, started from scratch and who literally started with LinkedIn, looked at their talent brand, built the talent brand, increased that, then they went to, you know, then it went to Facebook, then they went to Twitter and did it one at a time. And now sort of like two years later, they’ve got Pinterest, they’ve got Instagram, they’ve done some really nice stuff around building the brand and all around recruiting, but without impacting the main brand.
Matt Alder [00:09:36]:
Okay, that’s interesting.
Andy Headworth [00:09:37]:
Which is a good one. So again, both the trend here is around brand and social, which we’re seeing that trend. Neil Morrison at Random House, Penguin Random House, I should say, has done some really nice work around video interviewing and using the video interviewing platform for their recruitment of their graduates, or fresh graduates with no experience, and how they’re using the video platform to differentiate the different capabilities and communication skills of graduates. So, again, that’s really good.
Matt Alder [00:10:11]:
Okay, fantastic.
Andy Headworth [00:10:12]:
And someone that we both well know, Mark Rice and his team at Anson people, have done some really clever work with Boots and Le Manoir, which was probably my favorite, where they use the combination of Twitter, little bit of Facebook and television programs to recruit a chef, a head chef, for their operation in Oxfordshire, which, again, I don’t think too many people have seen real examples of that. My favorite, probably one of my favorite is the one that you know well, as I know you do, which is the Maersk one.
Matt Alder [00:10:46]:
Yes.
Andy Headworth [00:10:48]:
I think you’ve had him on your program.
Matt Alder [00:10:50]:
Yeah, he’s actually episode one of the podcast. He was the beta episode. So if you want to hear Frederic talking about it, have a look at it. Episode one of this particular podcast.
Andy Headworth [00:11:01]:
Yeah. So it’s a very good, very, very good story. So we’ve covered and we’ve got some stories from South Africa, great example in India, in South America, so we’ve really tried to cover. And England, of course, and the UK of course.
Matt Alder [00:11:14]:
Quick question, sort of following on from that. I think one of the biggest challenges that I found talking to people about social is mobile. People are kind of diving into social media activity, but they’re not necessarily thinking the fact that these platforms are mobile and if they want to convert this response, they need to take people on a mobile journey. Do the examples that you. Obviously the UPS one does, but do the other examples incorporate mobile? Did you find that people who are getting success from this had an understanding of how mobile worked in this kind of process?
Andy Headworth [00:11:52]:
I would say they all use mobile, but in different ways. All of them have used it and is all part of it. So, Neil, for example, at Penguin Random House, they use the tablet for reviewing the interviews while on a train, that type of thing, which enables you to do that. And all the others have used it for various inputting methods. I think from my point of view, it’s really interesting because if you look at all the stats, and I think there was a conference, I think you were at last week, or someone was telling me about that, they stood up and said in front of the audience, they gave some sort of very high stats around. Everybody knows people are using mobile, candidates are on mobiles, the mobile traffic is high. LinkedIn’s traffic is. Is over 50% mobile. And all the audience nod and go, yes, we know that. So you then say, okay, so whose site is responsive or reactive? And suddenly no hands go up.
Matt Alder [00:12:46]:
I think it’s always funny because I stand up and do quite a load of those talks and you talk about mobile and all that sort of stuff, and everyone in the audience is on their smartphone at that point in time, answering their email, communicating, doing all that kind of stuff. And, you know, I think it bemuses me slightly that it’s not a focus for people, but it is, you know, it is something that’s not easy to do. But it’s good to hear that. Well, it’s obvious that people who are having success are using mobile in some kind of way. So from everything that you do, everything that you’ve learned, what would be your, you know, your three top tips for an employer to improve their social recruiting activity? What should they be focusing on?
Andy Headworth [00:13:31]:
Okay, well, we’ve got a couple more than three, but the first thing is don’t do it all in one go. You know, there’s a tendency, and we’ve seen bad examples of this, where companies think we have to be social, let’s go and do it. So they open up an account with everything and don’t do anything. They do it badly. So that’s the first thing. That’s the biggest. No, the first thing is, I would say, actually define what you want to do. Why are you doing social recruiting? Why do you want to use social media for your recruitment? You know, set some objectives and without setting these objectives, there’s no way you’re going to measure it at the end of the day. So you’re going to have to start somewhere.
Matt Alder [00:14:03]:
You don’t need to be on Meerkat and Periscope just yet.
Andy Headworth [00:14:06]:
Perhaps maybe that’s the second week you miss Snapchat as well, don’t forget.
Matt Alder [00:14:13]:
Oh, yeah, of course.
Andy Headworth [00:14:15]:
But no, the first thing is objectives. The second thing is once you set your objectives, take the time to define what your audience is and where that audience actually resides in the social world. So, you know, this is a big issue where everyone’s assuming everyone’s on LinkedIn, the world moves on past LinkedIn. There’s lots of other places where great candidates are and there’s a lot of. I find a lot of companies are misaligning their audience with the social network, so they’re completely wasting their time. Another one really is to empower their employees. I think a lot of companies don’t take the time to communicate and engage their employees as well as they could because they’re the best potential advocates for their social sharing. To start with, to get presence and to get traction. Okay, content, make sure it’s interesting, it’s relevant, it’s timely and it’s shareable. If it’s not, and you’re going to read it and you’re going to think it’s boring, you know, don’t get involved and do it. And the final thing is it’s. It’s measure and monitor it. You know, it comes back to you set your objectives, you measure against it, and then you can change and you know, amend accordingly as, as the results show.
Matt Alder [00:15:26]:
Yeah, absolutely. And I think it kind of goes back to your first point that you can’t measure anything if you don’t know why you’re doing it. And I think, you know, experimentation is always good in this area. But I, you know, we’re at this stage now where this stuff is 10 years old. People need to understand why they’re doing it, what they’re going to get out of it. So final question. I kind of sort of mentioned Periscope and Meerkat and all the kind of stuff that’s going on. And we’ve seen Snapshots, Snapchat and WhatsApp, you know, a huge, huge kind of take up of those, of those channels. What’s next for social recruiting? What does the future hold, do you think?
Andy Headworth [00:16:09]:
I wish I could answer that because I’d be going to make an app. But no, joking aside, I think we’re still. What I’ve learned when I was writing the book, and I know this from talking to clients, is for all the shiny objects, for all the great stuff like the tools you’ve just mentioned and all the ones coming along, every day, there’s something new. Do you know what? There’s still the basics that people are doing wrong. I think the future for the next 12 months is do you know what, do what you can do better. Park all the shiny objects and let’s get, you know, get some real, you know, some real proper social engagement and recruiting done on the proper platform. Not proper platforms, on platforms that work and are proven and are measurable, then start to look at doing other things. So I don’t think I’m not a massive, you know, go and find the latest toy to go and play with in social. Yes, they can work, they can be brilliant. And we know mobile, you know, we know video is, you know, is such an important part of that with images, but, you know, just integrate it into what you’re doing well already. So I just think sometimes that the future for me is take one step back, do that better, then look one step forward.
Matt Alder [00:17:17]:
Yeah, very, very sensible thoughts there. Thank you very much for talking to me, Andy.
Andy Headworth [00:17:23]:
No problem. Pleasure.
Matt Alder [00:17:25]:
Thanks there to Andy Headworth. I’ve put a link to Andy’s book in the show Notes as well as a link to a blog that I wrote recently with some of my thoughts on social recruiting. As ever, you can subscribe to the podcast in itunes, Stitcher or any good podcasting app. Alternatively, you can listen to past episodes@www.rfpodcast.com. thanks for listening. I’ll be back next week and I hope you’ll join.
