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Ep 606: Empowering Gen Z & Building A Social Brand


A few weeks ago, I spent a couple of days recording at the excellent Transform conference in Las Vegas, and this is the first of two episodes with a compilation of some of the conversations I had.

My first guest is Danielle Farage, a renowned Gen Z Futurist, Educator, and Community Builder. Danielle shares her perspective on why it’s crucial to give Gen Z a voice and discusses the current employee experience for the newest generation in the workforce.

My second conversation is with Recruiter and Creator Joel Lalgee. Joel talks about his journey to reaching an incredible 600,000 followers across various social media platforms. He shares his insights on how recruiters and employers should use a combination of short-form video and face-to-face experiences to build an influential brand.

Topics we cover:

• The disconnect between the C-Suite and early career talent

• Including younger voices in the conversations defining the future of work

• Advice on building the workforce of the future

• Helping Gen Z develop their careers is an appropriate way for the times we live in

• What will work look like in five years?

• Producing high-quality content for TikTok and Instagram

• Why TA is missing a massive opportunity

• Being Omnichannel and building relationships and trust

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[Recruiting Future Theme]

Matt Alder: Hi, there. Welcome to Episode 606 of Recruiting Future with me, Matt Alder. A few weeks ago, I spent a couple of days recording at the excellent Transform Conference in Las Vegas, and this is the first of two episodes with a compilation of some of the conversations that I had. First up is Danielle Farage, Gen Z Futurist, Educator and Community Builder. Danielle talks about why we need to give Gen Z a voice and the current employee experience for the newest generation in the workforce.

My second conversation is with recruiter and creator Joel Lalgee. Joel talks about his journey to reaching an incredible 600,000 followers across various social media platforms. He shares his insights on how recruiters and employers should use a combination of short form video and face to face experiences to build an influential brand.

Danielle Farage: Hi, I’m Danielle Farage. I am a Gen Z consultant and public speaker. I work with organizations on their talent strategy to help them better recruit, retain, and attract Gen Z talent in the future of work and the now of work.

Matt Alder: Tell us a little bit about your backstory and what you did before to get to where you are now.

Danielle Farage: So, I graduated in 2020 into the pandemic and it was a very different time. Definitely didn’t imagine myself graduating remotely after seeing both my siblings graduate from USC in person with all the fanfare. And I basically studied psychology, I saw a problem my sophomore year of college that I really wanted to try to solve, which was looking at my siblings’ relationship with work and experiences with work, they seemed miserable. And I didn’t understand why, I thought that organizations were supposed to enhance our quality of life and enhance our working experience, and I saw the opposite effect, and so I wanted to really dig into why, and I felt like one of the biggest problems was that there was a disconnect between the C suite or the decision level people and more of the younger talent that was coming into the workforce.

I just saw this huge divide in terms of how we’re thinking about the world, how we’re coming into the workforce. And so, I then ended up in the world of HR tech after going through a very toxic work experience, graduating during the pandemic, and really realizing that I was the only person that was going to help me get to where I wanted to be.

And I basically worked at this company called Wade and Wendy, and I basically joined a team of 18 and was the marketing team of one. I did partnerships. I worked on our recruitment automation community. I worked on our podcast, and I was literally on calls with the head of talent acquisition at PepsiCo and like these crazy companies that as a 22-year-old, I could never imagine myself even talking to.

Fast forward, they got acquired. It wasn’t a good fit for me to stay. And I ended up in the world of hybrid work and more on like the workplace side, helping organizations better position themselves to attract employees to their organizations, but also back to an office or in a hybrid environment.
And I did a lot of community building, did a lot of product work, but at the same time of this entire career happening, I was also sharing my perspective on the future of work because I saw that it was so badly needed. We’re having these conversations about “reimagining work,” and we’re not including the younger generation of workers that are not only coming into the workforce at a rapid rate, but they’re also here. We’re not talking about just the future. We’re talking about the now.

Matt Alder: Absolutely. And tell us a bit about your experience at the conference today, because I think that kind of illustrates that point quite well.

Danielle Farage: So, I ended up here, actually on my own. I reached out to Transform a few weeks before the conference, maybe a month and a half before. And I just noticed that a lot of these conferences, not just in the HR world, but a lot of conferences just don’t include younger voices because they’re not in the C suite or maybe they don’t think that we have something meaningful to contribute. And I reached out and I was like, “Hey, I think you need more Gen Zs on your panels and in your content.” And they told me it was too late for me to speak. And so, I said, “Okay, I’ll take the free ticket and I booked a flight, and sharing a room with my friend Sally Wolf and made it work.”

But I thought that it was really important for me to be here because I knew that there weren’t going to be a lot of Gen Zers. And if we’re going to continue to have these conversations about the future of work, again, we need to include younger voices. And so yesterday was the day one of the conference, and I went to, of course, the Gen Z at work panel. That was a panel I had my eye on because there were no Gen Zers on the panel. And I, immediately, when I entered the room felt like I wanted representation there. And throughout the entire conversation, I was just like, “Yeah, I’m hearing a lot of they, them, but I’m not hearing a lot of we, us, I.” And that was because no one on that panel was under the age of 35.

And so, I just found it a little bit antithetical to exactly not only what Gen Z believes in and what we want from work, but also to the points that they were making themselves of, “Oh, yeah, we need to include them in the conversation,” while literally doing the opposite. And so, what I ended up doing was I asked if I could ask a question at the Q&A portion, and they ended the panel without a Q&A. And I stayed in the room, there was like a discussion, kind of roundtable thing, and at the end of that, they were like, “Oh, are there any takeaways?” And I stood up, I took the mic, and I was like, “Hey, not so much as takeaways as much as I think there’s a learning moment here. How many Gen Zers are there in the room?” And three people raised their hand. The room was packed, by the way. And essentially, then I said, “Listen, it’s great that we’re having these discussions. I think you hit a nerve, obviously. But to not have Gen Z on the panel representing at least just one of us is exactly an example of not– It’s the type of leadership we’re not looking for. It’s to be talked about versus spoken with.”

Matt Alder: What advice would you give to not just conference organizers, but CEOs, chief people officers, whoever, in terms of building the kind of the workforce that you’re going to feel comfortable in and do your best work with all of your career ahead of you?

Danielle Farage: So much, there’s so much I want to say. I think it comes down to a few simple steps. I think the first one is Gen Z is coming into the workforce with a lot of opinions, and we want to be heard. And I think that leaders need to take the time, garner the curiosity, create the space, have the empathy to listen. And I know we’re hearing a lot about empathy at this conference, obviously because it’s an HR conference. But I really think that this generation requires a different level of active listening. And we’re very good at calling out the BS. We’re very good at sniffing out if someone’s being fake. We do it with marketing, we’ve been fed ads our entire lives. We can tell when something is an ad right away. We can also tell when someone is fronting and not being totally authentic. And authentic leadership, transparent leadership, those are all things that we’re looking for in the now of work that we’re not necessarily getting.

And I think the second step is really to not just listen actively, but ask better questions. And thirdly, to listen to what we’re saying, obviously, and act on it. Don’t just kind of ask for our feedback and then not do anything with that feedback, or even worse, do something that’s totally against the feedback.

Matt Alder: You graduated during the pandemic, and I presume that your first jobs were all remote only, not in an office and all that kind of thing. One of the arguments, and I’ve heard it several times today already, about dragging people back into an office, is to help people who are entering the workforce somehow assimilate a huge amount of knowledge by sitting and watching people, or I’m not quite sure how it works. What’s your view on that? What do you think? Because we’re in a different time now and I think that companies need to realize that. How do you think that training, that skilling can work in the environment that we actually live in, not what it was five years ago.

Danielle Farage: There’s so much on this because I literally– Going from the HR world and really talent acquisition to then the workplace world, which is– It doesn’t sound that different, but workplace is much more about people operations, and making sure people have a good experience and real estate and the place that they’re doing in it. And real estate could also mean, you don’t have an office, and the real estate becomes wherever you convene. And that real estate could be online. It could be once a year in some random part of the world. And, I think a lot of companies are addressing this in very different ways and unique ways, I think when it comes to Gen Z, and I think some millennials as well, we’re definitely looking for that leadership. We’re looking for guidance in a way that is a little bit different from prior generations.

I think there’s a lot of choice paralysis of, there are so many different things I could do. I want to do it all. And we do need that guidance and support to kind of help us make better decisions about work, help us navigate the fact that we’re going to have seven to nine different careers in our lifetimes, and we don’t really know how to do that. No one’s really having those conversations with us. But I think to the point of, “Oh, does it have to be in the office or does it not have to be in the office?” I think that it’s really about intentionality. Like if you’re going to have people come to the office once a week, what is the experience that you’re giving them to make them want to come back, just like you would with your customers, right? You want to retain customers, what is the experience? Are you elevating the experience? You’re constantly improving upon the value that you’re providing, and are you adapting to the changing needs of that consumer?

And I think that the workplace world is thinking a lot more from that perspective of taking– A lot of people who have been in hospitality are now going into workplace and that kind of thing, and it’s been really interesting because it makes a lot of sense. It’s like you’re used to catering to the consumer who’s coming into your hotel, giving them a high touch, high level experience, white glove service. And I think the same is true for where the real industry is heading, but also as it relates to experiences for individuals within the office setting or even remotely.

Matt Alder: As a final question, almost every panel and presentation I’ve seen, someone’s made a joke, including me, about it being compulsory to talk about AI. So, we have to talk about AI, but let’s do it in this context. It looks like that we’re in for five to ten years of kind of exponential growth in the sophistication of technology. What do you think the future of work looks like in that context? So, if we were having this conversation in five years’ time, presuming there’s still conferences in five years’ time and they’re not Apple vision Pro conferences or something, what would we be talking about? What would things look like?

Danielle Farage: So, I just came from another panel about Gen Z, but it was more about investing in the next generation of talent. And one of the things that stood out was they were talking a lot about mutual mentorship and the fact that high school students, college students, and people coming into the workforce are experimenting more with AI, and they’re like, “We’re leaning into it.” And I would agree, I’ve worked in several startups, I’m not afraid to pick up a new piece of technology. And I think that because of that, there’s an opportunity there to tap into the learning, tap into the growth, tap into the opportunity to connect people based on what they’re looking to learn, what they’re looking to leave behind. Because we have all these boomers that are going to be hopefully gone. They’re so annoying. [laughs] Won’t they ever retire?

Matt Alder: [laughs] I’m Gen X, by the way, so I’m just kind of, we’re just hanging around watching the whole thing.

Danielle Farage: But thirdly, how can you take what we’re both learning from each other and then leverage it to grow within the organization? Whether you’re a C suite executive who needs to learn more about AI, or you’re a young professional who doesn’t necessarily know what their career path looks like. So that’s a concept that is really baked into what I call frontorship, which is a concept that I’ve coined to really describe this mutually beneficial, authentic, and vulnerable relationship between two people that is not hierarchical in nature. There’s actually no power dynamic and it’s totally based on this learning, leaving and leveraging model that I’ve so carefully designed.

Matt Alder: Danielle, thank you very much for talking to me.

Danielle Farage: Yeah, thank you for having me. This is a blast.

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So, hi Joel, welcome to the podcast.

Joel Lalgee: Great to be here, Matt. Great to meet you. Great to be here in person as well.

Matt Alder: Absolutely brilliant to meet you face to face. We’ve kind of spoken via Zoom before, and obviously you are forever in my TikTok feed.


Joel Lalgee: Until it gets banned next week, apparently.

Matt Alder: Yeah, well, absolutely. But then, there’s always Instagram, there’s always the other stuff. For few people that may not come across your content, just introduce yourself and tell us a bit about what you do.

Joel Lalgee: Yeah, yeah. So, I’ve been in the recruitment space for about a decade, mainly on the agency side, and I started creating content about five years ago, mainly on LinkedIn, and spent about three years consistently posting on that platform, growing the following. And then about two years ago, started posting a lot of video content on TikTok. And that’s just kind of migrated to Snapchat, YouTube, Instagram more recently as well. And so now my full-time job is– And I’ve kind of come to terms with this, if I can say that just media, entertainment, and just working with brands at, how can we creatively get whatever message you have to my audience and just provide value for people as well.

Matt Alder: To give people a bit of context. Tell us about the size of your audience, the size of the audience that you built up on those channels.

Joel Lalgee: Yeah. So, LinkedIn, I think, is about 230,000 followers. Instagram is about 127,000, TikTok, 220,000. So, it’s about 600,000 across platforms, and then it generates anywhere from 20 million to 50 million views a month right now.

Matt Alder: It says two years, was that kind of a slow process, or did it just kind of take off one day? How did that growth happen?

Joel Lalgee: Well, I actually joined TikTok in 2019, so before the pandemic, and a lot of the time I spent on just looking at what content is out there. And then I stopped, actually, in 2020 just to focus on LinkedIn. And then when I went back to TikTok in 2022, I just noticed there had been a shift in the platform completely, and there was a lot more high value content. It was a lot of people searching for questions and that type of thing. So, I initially started kind of going to my default, which is kind of following trends and trying to use humor around recruitment content, job search content. And then really over the last six months, I’ve gotten really into talking head so almost like, it’s like videos that look like you’re facetiming someone.

And what I’ve actually come to realize, even the last couple days is, I think over the last couple of years, we’ve really been conditioned to Zoom communication and then a lot of FaceTime. And so those videos, I think, mimic, like what it’s like to FaceTime someone. And if you’re not producing them, and you’re not like highly producing them, there’s an authenticity comes out, and so it’s like you’re almost able to scale that one-to-one interaction to millions. And I see that content to me is actually trending more than short audio and like these trending clips, it’s like a lot of the platforms are getting away from that because they realize that content, it’s not sticky enough to keep people actually engaged.

Matt Alder: I think what’s been interesting for me, because I’ve kind of started watching TikTok a lot more in the last year or so. I think I kind of visited briefly looked into it, kind of a few years ago, and there’s always this kind of perception that this is a very young audience don’t understand what’s going on. I kind of looked at, I’ve got some Gen Z nephews, I kind of looked at stuff that they were posting. I was like, I don’t actually understand. I don’t understand what they’re saying, let alone nothing else. But since I’ve come back to it, there is a real diversity breadth of content on there from people of all ages, of all industries, and people getting some massive traction and followers and fan bases and all those kind of things. It just strikes me that in our industry, there’s not much, there’s you, there’s maybe a sort of handful of other people, but it just doesn’t seem to be– It seems like a massive missed opportunity for everyone, what do you think is that?

Joel Lalgee: I just think anyone who’s a true subject matter expert, I’m not saying I’m a subject matter expert either in everything to do with recruiting, but there’s people who, they have a lot of information that other people would search for. And what we’re finding now is like people actually going to TikTok or Instagram or YouTube. I mean, they’ve been going to YouTube to search, but on the social media platforms now people are searching for valuable content. And so, the opportunity is, if you’re in recruitment, if you run your own business like you’re a solo recruiter, maybe you run an agency, if you’re doing any type of consulting, your clients are going to be spending time one of those platforms.

Now, they’re still spending time on LinkedIn, but there is no denying they will be on these other platforms. And so, if you actually are putting out valuable information that people are interested in, that’s how you’re seeing people build audiences really quickly. I’ve seen people build audiences of 100,000 in short amount of time, six months, a month.

Matt Alder: Because there’s already so much content about work on there at the moment, whether that’s people recording themselves being laid off or talking about their careers and all that sort of stuff, it seems like an area that’s where people want to talk about jobs and work. And as an industry where we’re absent from that conversation.

Joel Lalgee: And I think one of the big things I get from recruiters and why they’re not doing it is, and I can understand this, is they don’t want to put themselves out there too much to have tons of people reaching out to them.

Matt Alder: Yeah, of course.

Joel Lalgee: So, it’s like almost, it’s easy to be a little bit hidden. And then, “Okay, I’m getting 100 people reach out.” And then I think, you post something and you’re a recruiter, you might get a backlash as well. And I think we’ve all seen that as well. [Matt laughs] But that puts people off as well.

Matt Alder: Yeah.

Joel Lalgee: And I can get that, but the value is being known. I don’t see a downside if you’re looking to reach people or people knowing you first, and if you have that opportunity, why not take it.

Matt Alder: From a kind of a, let’s say from a corporate talent acquisition perspective, I think that organizations have always struggled with this type of content, whether that’s Instagram or whatever, because it’s in a medium that’s so personal, where people attach themselves to individuals rather than brands and companies. Do you see employers being able to talk about their brand or do these kind of things in those kind of medium?

Joel Lalgee: When I’m working with teams, what I’m more focused on is distribution. So, if I’m working with a recruitment team and they’ve got 20 people, and then I go to the company page and they’ve got four likes on a company post, I’m asking the recruiters, “Why are you not liking that on LinkedIn?” And so, I think it’s more of like actively getting people to just engage in the content that’s being created by marketing.

Now, if you’re an agency, if you’re on the agency side and you got business development function. As an individual, I think you’ve got to build your own personal brand. I think anyone right now, if you’re corporate, you own your own business, you need to be thinking about your personal brand. But when I’m working with a team of recruiters specifically, I’m a lot more focused on what’s the content that someone’s already created and why are you even engaging with it, that’s step one. And it’s just distribution, like how do we get more brand for free? And then we look about like, adding value to the organization.

If there’s no jobs, then there’s no value, we all get laid off, but we’re missing opportunity to just add a really easy value.

Matt Alder: 100%. Yeah, I was just thinking about that whole backlash thing because there was this real trend to do. Here’s my day in the life of working for Twitter. There’s a huge kind of backlash against some of those from the tech industry, particularly all the layoffs and things like that. But I mean, do you think though in the future because we have whole generations now that this is the way they consume media, this is the way they like to communicate, and if companies want to hire this kind of talent, they’re going to have to go and meet them there and communicate in a very different way. And I think before we turn the mics on, you were talking about being omnichannel, tell us a little bit more about that.

Joel Lalgee: Yeah, I think, again, another missed opportunity that we’re seeing with recruitment teams is literally going to where people are at. So, I think we have become really, really just, I guess, dependent on LinkedIn and email, sequences, outreach, outreach, outreach. And I think it’s missed opportunity and obviously spending– Where are they spending time digitally, so on social media, but then what about in real life? We’re just talking about this like why– You have an engineering conference, why aren’t some of the recruiting team going there just to meet people, build relationships?

And so, what I actually look at is I look at the tech sales model, like what tech sales people are doing, because I see them all the time on LinkedIn. And now if you’re in tech sales, it’s like you’ve got to be able to build your brand online. You got to be able to like– You leverage LinkedIn, social media to build awareness. You’ve got to know how to have good outbound strategy, and then you got to meet people and build those relationships. So, my whole thing now, it’s like how do you create a really good experience when you meet someone, and then you’re just nurturing it with the content. So, every time someone sees your content, they’re like, “Oh, I know that person.” And you’re just staying top of mind with them. It’s a relationship. You can hack some things. I think you can hack a lot of numbers on social media, but you can’t hack those relationships. And with recruiting, I mean, so much of it is a relationship, I’m just building those relationships.

Matt Alder: I think there’s a lot there about relationships and trust. And I think that is one of the really interesting things about the content platforms that we have now, because there are people out there who have these loyal armies of fans and stuff like that, and you see that translate face to face as well. So, from a podcasting perspective, there are podcasts that in the US and the UK, they run live events. Those events sell out in seconds because people want to go and see and be part of that experience, meet the podcaster or at least see them doing their stuff. So, I think it dovetails really well into that as well. And even things like, I can’t remember his name. There’s that guy on TikTok who’s building his watch company. Have you seen this guy?

Joel Lalgee: No.

Matt Alder: He’s a British guy. He just turns up in some random place in America.

Joel Lalgee: Really?

Matt Alder: He’s just like, you need to find me. And he doesn’t say where he is.

Joel Lalgee: That’s awesome.

Matt Alder: And I don’t know whether it’s staged or not, but basically, then people come running up and claim their free watch because they found him.

Joel Lalgee: How many followers does he have?

Matt Alder: Oh, he’s got millions.

Joel Lalgee: Millions.

Matt Alder: And he’s just built this whole watch company through doing it. I can’t remember his name, but maybe I’m not his target audience. But it’s that kind of. It’s that sort of that combination of I’m building content, but actually there’s a big face to face and human element in it. And I think that, there’s got to be something in that for recruiting, that there must be.

Joel Lalgee: Yeah. And another big mistake I see, I think from a lot of recruiters is you fall into that trap of just creating content for other recruiters. So particularly on LinkedIn, because it’s like, I’m like, I post a lot of recruiting content, but I’m trying to reach recruiters. The brands I’m working with I’m trying to reach recruiters. For a long time, I was recruiting recruiters. So, yeah, I wanted recruiters to know who I was. So, I was in the inbox, they would answer me. I think, get known in your industry, build those relationships. And again, it’s an opportunity, like, think about all the recruiting podcasts you know, there’s not that many recruiting podcasts that are like industry specific outside of recruiting. And maybe it’s as simple as looking at what’s going on in your industry and sharing the news, but having a perspective on it as well. And these are like the missing opportunities where I’m like, ” How do you come up with content all the time?” Like, I watch the news because the news gives me half of my content, what’s going on?

Matt Alder: And I think I would say from a recruiter perspective, crews that operate in a niche are very well positioned to commentate on their niche at that kind of level. I mean, they never going to go into the complexity or the depth of it, but just in terms of this is what’s going on in the industry, this is what people are doing, this is what we’re seeing. Huge amounts of content right there.

Joel Lalgee: I think so and I think what you do then is you’re learning. You’re learning what’s going on, you become a subject matter expert, you become the thought leader. But again, that is a challenge for– It’s a challenge and it’s a process, but you start by following– And I just always think too. Like, I was talking to someone earlier about video content on LinkedIn, and I was like, “Look, you’re speaking to people that you know, they’re all humans. It’s not like you’re speaking–” Like, TikTok’s a little bit different, right? If you post a content on TikTok, it could just go randomly viral. LinkedIn, it doesn’t happen because that’s not how the algorithm works. It’s like relationship based. So, as you’re meeting candidates, you’ve produced that content and they know you and you’re aware that’s building a one– it’s a one-way relationship. And so, I think the other argument that comes up is like, it’s a time commitment, but I’m also like, at this point to me if you’re not thinking about digital, it’s like you don’t have your priorities right, because it’s just the future.

Matt Alder: Yeah, exactly. I mean, as I say, It’s the way that people communicate. So, you can’t kind of bypass that. Final question, predicting the future is obviously impossible, but kind of interesting time because literally, I think it was either yesterday or today. I think it was today that US Congress have announced that– I suppose the short version of is that they’re trying to shut down TikTok in its current form. So, people might look at that and say, “Well, you know, I don’t need to get into all this kind of stuff because it’s on the way out.” But what do you think the future looks like? How’s that going to pan out? What might social media look like in a couple of years’ time? What are the trends?

Joel Lalgee: Yeah, look, I think the skills that you learn are what really matters. So, like, when I look at LinkedIn, yeah, I got good following on there, but I’ve also learned how to write and I learned how to hook and hook people or convert or write in a certain way, which then goes into emails. So, I’m emailing candidates, I’m emailing prospects. I know how to write. So, I think those that are able to master just how to do– it’s like a podcasting. Podcasting is an art, it’s a skill. You learn how to do it. Video is the same way. You’ve got to practice it. You got to get good. So, whether TikTok’s here, Instagram, I could, my honest thought is I could see social media kind of going away and it being more just online community or like live streamers or like more kind of like those live events, which I think we’re seeing on some of those platforms. But I think you just learning how to communicate well digitally, it’s just like, if you’re not thinking about that, I think you have a really hard time with business development, candidate recruitment, because right now what I’m seeing too, is a lot of outbound, like, every tool I have talked to in the last six months, it’s like, we can help you with more personalized emails, more personal–

And I remember, I think it was Hung Lee. He said, like a year ago. He’s like, we’re going to have really, really, really good spam.

Matt Alder: Yeah, exactly.

Joel Lalgee: And it’s like, well, how do you cut through good spam? They got to know you.

Matt Alder: Yeah, they know you. You’re authentic. You write with your voice. We’re having this conversation before we started, and I think it’s like, I’m dismayed by the sheer amount of LinkedIn posts that are being posted that are obviously written by AI. They’re always the same. They’re very long and they have emojis, and the people I know do them, and they don’t talk like that.


Joel Lalgee: I don’t– And that’s, I think, again, it’s like, what you got to think about is, I think we got to get away with this idea of online and offline and start to think about it’s just a different way of communicating with humans. It’s the same people. And it’s like, if you met me now and you’re like, “Wow, this guy is way different to anything I’ve ever seen online.” That’d be so weird. You’d be like, this is– Doesn’t make sense.

Matt Alder: Yeah, no, exactly. I think that’s the thing. It’s kind of like if you can use AI to do a lot of things for you, but if you don’t do it authentically, then it kind of all falls down, doesn’t it?

Joel Lalgee: 100%.

Matt Alder: Fantastic. Joel, thank you so much for talking to me.

My thanks to Danielle and Joel. You can follow this podcast on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify or via your podcasting app of choice. Please also subscribe to our YouTube channel by going to Mattalder.TV. You can search all the past episodes On that site, you can also subscribe to our monthly newsletter, Recruiting Future Feast, and get the inside track about everything that’s coming up on the show. Thanks very much for listening. I’ll be back next time and I hope you’ll join me.


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