It’s been a brutal year for many in talent acquisition, with a lot of layoffs and a very tough job market, making it challenging to find other roles. This removal of certainty and stability has been mirrored in many different talent markets and looks like becoming the norm moving forward.
Traditionally, switching careers and industries has been challenging, but will the rise of skills-based thinking change this moving forward? So, how do we think about careers moving forward, and what do employers need to do to ensure they are getting the right skills in their business?
My guest this week is Ilana Golan, Founder and CEO of Leap Academy. Leap Academy is a coaching programme that helps professionals fast-track their careers by changing function or industry, by moving into leadership, or by making the jump to be an entrepreneur.
In the interview, we discuss:
• How work and careers are changing
• Practical advice for job seekers
• Adapting, learning and re-inventing
• The challenging pace of change
• A mindset shift for employers
• Dealing with Ageism
• Rising above the noise
• The impact of AI
• What will career paths look like in the future?
Listen to this podcast on Apple Podcasts.
Transcript:
Matt Alder [00:00:00]:
Support for this podcast comes from Talent Collective, the dynamic non profit community dedicated to empowering, connecting and advancing women plus in the ever evolving realm of talent acquisition. Talent Collective’s mission is to elevate the careers and networks of its members through carefully curated experiences ensuring women plus in recruiting thrive, learn and connect. Whether you’re a global TA leader, head of talent, corporate or agency recruiter, or an expert in recruiting or people operations, Talent Collective is tailored just for you. With over 200 women in recruiting globally, you could enjoy a multitude of benefits. From quarterly fireside chats, monthly networking events, boardroom peer groups, mentorship programs, engaging workshops to a dedicated recruiter job board, and discounts from their recruiting service partners. Talent Collective is more than just a community, it’s a supportive ecosystem where careers flourish. Explore unique experiences and opportunities to connect with like minded professionals on their free community platform@talentcollective.community. that’s talentcollective.community. follow them on LinkedIn and Instagram and join women in recruiting whose careers are thriving and flourishing.
Matt Alder [00:01:43]:
Hi there, this is Matt Alder. Welcome to episode 583 of the Recruiting Future podcast and the last episode of 2023. It’s been a brutal year for many in talent acquisition with a lot of layoffs and a very tough job market making it challenging to find other roles. This removal of certainty and stability has been mirrored in many other talent markets and it looks like becoming the norm. Moving forward Traditionally, switching careers and industries has been challenging, but with the rise of skills based thinking, is this about to change? Moving forward so how do we now think about careers and what do employers need to do to ensure they’re getting the right skills in their business? My guest this week is Ilana Golan, Founder and CEO of Leap Academy. Leap Academy is a coaching program that helps professionals fast track their careers by changing function or industry, by moving into leadership, or by making the jump to be an entrepreneur.
Matt Alder [00:02:48]:
Hi Ilana and welcome to the podcast.
Illana Golan [00:02:50]:
I love it. Thank you Matt. Thanks for having me.
Matt Alder [00:02:52]:
An absolute pleasure to have you on the show. Please could you introduce yourself and tell everyone what you do?
Illana Golan [00:02:59]:
Oh, I love that. So I’m an entrepreneur techie. I’ve leaped in my career many, many, many times. Started from the Air Force all the way to intel, many, many startups and I realized that I want to start my own. I can tell you a little bit about why this happened. But in general, I just realized that it is harder to leap from one industry function again. Again, the education system is not really helping us. So I scraped a lot of knees and I wanted to help other professionals leap in their careers so that they can fast track to leadership or land their dream role or even jump to entrepreneurship. So, so that’s what we do in Leap Academy. Matt, excellent.
Matt Alder [00:03:42]:
Tell us a little bit more about Leap Academy.
Illana Golan [00:03:44]:
Of course. So we, again, I wanted to help driven professionals leap in their career so that they can become their full potential. And for me, it was really, really hard to figure out what else is possible, what’s even on the menu, what are my options, and even if I want something, how can I prove that I can do it? And I realized that there’s actually a very engineered way to reinvent yourself and leap. And the truth is, I believe that this is the future of work. I believe that this is the future of education. I think it’s one of the most important skills in today. With AI and all the advancements, if we don’t move forward, we are actually stuck or even moving backwards and losing relevant at a speed that we’ve never seen before. So the ability to adapt, reinvent, leap again, again, again, between different functions, responsibilities, industries, et cetera is mandatory, Matt. And I’m just so passionate about it. And I love helping professionals and seeing them grow, transform, become happier, more content, more fulfilled. And it’s incredible.
Matt Alder [00:04:51]:
I mean, how are you seeing work and careers changing? Because obviously things are very different from when they were 20 years ago, 10 years ago, five years ago, maybe even three years ago. How, how are things evolving?
Illana Golan [00:05:04]:
Oh, it’s a beautiful question. I mean, the truth is, look, gone are the days of people stay in the same place for 40 years in almost that that’s happening right now. And the more we look at estimates, the estimate is that people will reinvent themselves and change, whether it’s responsibility or career or role, every year or two. So when we’re looking at this pace of change, nobody’s preparing us for it. And the hiring industry needs to change the way we train people needs to change, the way people adapt in their workplace needs to change. So everything is moving at a pace that we don’t even know how to grasp, but it is changing the way the work environment is. So it’s fascinating, but we need to also make sure that professionals have the right skills, that the hiring managers have the right skills, HR has the right skills in order to hire better, train better, make sure people stay motivated, et cetera Right. So it’s all of it.
Matt Alder [00:06:03]:
Yeah, absolutely.
Matt Alder [00:06:03]:
I mean, there’s so much that I want to dig into there. But let’s start with employers. So what do you think’s wrong with recruiting? Lots of employers out there really struggling to get the talent that they need to find the skills that they need. What sort of mindset shift do they.
Matt Alder [00:06:17]:
Need to go to? You know, what needs to happen to.
Matt Alder [00:06:20]:
Make the whole process better?
Illana Golan [00:06:21]:
Yeah, it’s a beautiful question, Matt. So I think we used to only hire for skills, and you would look at exactly what are the skills and make sure somebody ticks all the right boxes. And the more you realize that people need to adapt so fast and learn on the go and be adapt and, you know, and keep reinventing themselves, you actually realize you actually need to hire for hunger, not for skills. And again, don’t get me wrong, if you need somebody to be the most brilliant AI engineer, you need to find somebody that studied this. But the hunger in many, many cases will be a lot more important than the skills. Somebody that is willing to go above and beyond solve problems, innovative, emotional intelligence, you know, et cetera, is actually going to be a lot more important than just taking the skills and whatever they were educated on or whatever they learned in school. And when we realized that, we need to understand that the hiring format is changing, the way we interview is changing, the way we train is changing. Because again, people will want to kind of move to different responsibilities and gain more growth and impact and more in the workplace. And so we need an environment that lets them do that. And again, that’s where it comes back to hunger.
Matt Alder [00:07:45]:
And I seen some employers already making.
Matt Alder [00:07:47]:
That kind of shift.
Illana Golan [00:07:49]:
I am, but not as much as I want to, if I’m being honest. I think still, you know, you have the typical job boards in many, most of the cases, from a certain age, from a certain seniority level, the job boards are completely useless, Matt. Right. And people are just trying to tick, make sure that the ATS will make them pass and they have the skills that are mentioned. And. And the truth is that’s not what counts. So we still have a lot of work to do. A lot of people are still, or a lot of employers are still looking at those typical. Let me see that this ticks all the boxes. Well, there’s so many other people that are a lot hungrier, a lot more capable. Maybe they don’t tick all the boxes, but they going to gonna be amazing if you actually give them a chance. So we are seeing some employers mainly by the way startups are looking a lot more as who’s going to be a go getter, who’s going to be innovative, who’s going to go above and beyond. But we still see a lot of the big players are just trying the regular routes of job boards and maybe a little bit of, hey, who do you know? Which is important, but there’s better ways.
Matt Alder [00:09:02]:
And how, how much of an issue.
Matt Alder [00:09:03]:
Things like ageism is, is that something that you’re seeing a lot?
Illana Golan [00:09:07]:
Oh, it’s a huge issue, especially now with this economy. And again, I, you know, first of all, the employers, I will put the blame on both sides by the way, the employers, as far as they’re concerned, you know, if somebody is showing exactly the same capabilities as somebody who is a 30 year old, they would prefer the more hungry, younger, just finished school versus somebody that is paid more, you know, maybe has a lot more on their plate, et cetera, et cetera. And sadly, we are seeing ageism hitting big. A lot of people are laid off a lot, a lot harder to find jobs, which breaks my heart. And I will also say to the professionals that are seeing this problem, many times it’s because they’re not playing the game at the level they should. They’re not telling their story the way they should. And they actually make it sound like they’re exactly the same skill level as a 30 year old. And every time a 50 year old will sound like a 30 year old, they don’t have a chance. But if they actually understand how much they have to offer, how much they’ve done, how much they accomplished, and they make it sound, sound accordingly, the sky is the limit. Because if somebody wants a go, somebody with so much skill and so much experience and this amazing combination of connections and all the things that you have when you’re 50 plus, then they will go for the 50 plus, right? The problem is that when you’re not telling that story well, you’re not giving the employer a really good ch, you know, reason to take you versus someone else. So I would say both, right? Like you want the employer to take a look and say, how much value am I really getting out of this person? And is it true that it can be, you know, managed by a 30 year old? And I would also lean on the professionals to say, you need to understand your personal brand matters, the way you tell the story matter, your executive presence matter, like from a certain age stage, you know, seniority of your career, you need to play at a different level, you need to play at a different game. And when you do, the sky’s your limit because everybody wants somebody that is so fundamental to the organization. If you’re going to position yourself as one plus one equal five, everybody will want you. So it is a lot about positioning. And I think we’re so wired to do good job and work hard behind the scenes away from the spotlight that we forget. So I would love to remind them. And that’s where Leap Academy comes in, of course.
Matt Alder [00:11:42]:
Course. And I suppose broadening that out slightly, I mean, it’s a very strange labor market at the moment. There are skill shortages and labor shortages and all these things going on. But also there’s a lot of layoffs. And in our industry, there’s been a lot of layoffs in talent acquisition this year, particularly in senior roles. And I know that there will be people listening who are struggling to get back after a layoff or they feel that they’re at a crossroads in their career. What sort of broader advice would you give to people who find themselves in that position?
Illana Golan [00:12:14]:
Ah, it’s a beautiful question. We’re seeing so many, and it breaks my heart. And the good news is that we’re also seeing a lot of people get hired right now. So the interesting thing is that they’re getting hired on in a different way. So especially if they’re not right out of college, the biggest play is what I call the hidden market. So this is basically where people who knows you and who will speak up for you and who will. Because again, the opportunities are still opening up, but they’re opening up when you’re not in the room. The question is, how many people have you top of mind and will bring those opportunities to you? And the interesting thing is that, you know, this is where you know, the professional, you know, as a professional, you want to, first of all make sure that you are really clear about what you want. So one of the biggest issues that I see, Matt, is that again, there’s so many options these days. People are so confused. They don’t have any clarity. So they, you know, oh, I could do this or this or this or this. And it’s just small company, big company, business development, sales, partnership, blah, blah. Like they just start creating this huge, weird story that just doesn’t resonate. So first of all, your story really needs to resonate and people need to have you top of mind according to where you’re going, not where you are right now. Now. And that is really fundamental because again, you already have a brand. The question is, what is it? So you want to build that reputation. You want to have a personal brand that is according to where you’re heading. And you want more people to have you top of mind so that they bring those opportunities to you. That’s where the hidden market is. And again, those roles open up every single day we see them. But most people are not in the hidden market. So those opportunities don’t come. They keep on doing the job boards, things and applying again, again. And those methods don’t work when it’s so crowded. You have to rise above the noise. You have to have a clear voice. And again, the good news is that these roles are being, you know, hired for. So you just need to play a slightly different game. And it’s. It’s an incredible feeling because it’s a game changer.
Matt Alder [00:14:31]:
You mentioned AI earlier and the speed at which things are changing and all those kind of things. How are you seeing it impacting work, but also the way that people are.
Matt Alder [00:14:43]:
Searching for jobs, the way that people.
Matt Alder [00:14:44]:
Are thinking about their careers, it’s amazing.
Illana Golan [00:14:47]:
So literally, you know, a minute before I jumped on a call with you, I had a conversation with a company that does personal AI, you know, so people can theoretically talk to me and get answers as if they’re talking to me. So, Matt, this, the pace of change is something we’ve never seen anywhere before. And the truth is, we’re already seeing a lot of jobs being eliminated. We’re seeing a lot of things. Chang. The good news is that again, the jobs will still be there. They’re just going to morph, they’re just going to change. There’s going to be different types of job, different types of industries, and that’s where adapting and reinventing and leaping is becoming one of the most important skills in the future of work. And unfortunately, it’s not taught anywhere, which breaks my heart because it should be taught in high school and colleges. And I wish more people would know how to reinvent themselves in Leap. But that becomes really, really important because again, you’re going to need to adapt. I mean, this is automating the way we’re hiring. This is automating the way we’re. I mean, we’re in LEAP Academy. We’re creating LinkedIn profiles, resume. All of this is using AI, you know, saying, so everything is AI driven. The way you create cover letters, the way you reach out. Of course you’re going to need to add your personal layer. Of course, course you’re going to need to make it. The personal touch is still there, Matt, but people will need to, you know, play at a different level because the problem is that AI has leveled the playing field. So to rise above the noise, it is hard.
Matt Alder [00:16:22]:
Yeah, no, absolutely. I think that’s a, I think that’s a really interesting, interesting point. We’re kind of in danger of everyone looking the same.
Illana Golan [00:16:28]:
Oh yeah, exactly. So you either rise above the noise or you don’t look on par. So one of them has to happen.
Matt Alder [00:16:37]:
So as a final question, I suppose thinking about the sort of the evolution of career, you know, you mentioned at the start there that people aren’t going to spend 40 years in the same job. People might think that they’re going to spend 40 years in the same role though, or the same industry. How are career paths going to change in the, in the future?
Matt Alder [00:16:54]:
Is that still going to be the case?
Matt Alder [00:16:56]:
Or do people with a sort of a lot of their career left ahead of them need to think really differently?
Illana Golan [00:17:02]:
Oh, I think that first of all we, first of all, as a human you want to start being very leap ready, if you will. So you want to always know that when the opportunity comes up, you are ready to leap if you need to. And if you want to, the last thing you want is to be completely dependent in all your well being on one company that may or may not keep you. But I do see a trend is what we call portfolio career. And we see more and more people creating a portfolio, a diverse, you know, method of income. So they will usually have one primary which is either in corporate or their own companies, but then they’ll be involved with all sorts of things because people love the diversity, they love the having fun, they love the innovation, they love the impact. And we see people joining boards and doing advisory and doing public speaking and doing, you know, being, you know, on, on boards on all sort of causes that they care about and being, you know, so we see people doing some really interesting things and I believe the future is some kind of a portfolio career that we all create in order to diversify income but also just interest. And we are seeing and the opportunities are amazing Matt, these days because they we didn’t used to have so many options. We do have a lot of ways with gig economy was working from remote like all of these things created this global work environment that everything is possible and it’s an incredible time to be alive.
Matt Alder [00:18:40]:
Ilana, thank you very much for talking to me.
Illana Golan [00:18:42]:
Of course, I enjoyed every minute Matt.
Matt Alder [00:18:45]:
My thanks to Ilana. You can subscribe to this podcast in Apple Podcasts on Spotify or via your podcasting app of choice. Please also follow the show on Instagram. You can find us by searching for Recruiting Future. You can search all the past episodes@recruitingfuture.com on that site. You can also subscribe to our monthly newsletter, Recruiting Future Feast, and get the inside track about everything that’s coming up on the show. Thanks very much for listening. I’ll be back next year and I hope you’ll join me.
