Despite the current economic issues, many businesses face a talent crisis. Skill shortages are part of the picture, but perhaps most worrying for business leaders are low levels of engagement and retention as expectations of the employment experience continue to evolve rapidly.
So what can employers do to build workforce resilience and get the competitive talent advantage essential to drive long-term value?
My guest this week is Tammy Browning, President at KellyOCG. KellyOCG has recently published a comprehensive piece of research looking at workforce resilience. In our conversation, Tammy shares the findings and talks us through the three strategic pillars that are helping employers to build a resilient workforce.
In the interview, we discuss:
• The methodology behind the report
• Low levels of employee engagement and severe retention issues
• Have things gone backwards since the pandemic?
• A lack of action on DE&I
• Mental health, career pathways and purpose
• Aligning talent acquisition, talent sustainability and organizational resilience
• Do leaders understand the issues?
• The critical elements of workforce resilience
• Purpose and capability
• The impact of AI
• What will the future look like?
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Transcription:
Matt Alder (Intro) (2m 19s):
Hi there. This is Matt Alder, Welcome to Episode 530 of The Recruiting Future Podcast. Despite the current economic issues, many businesses face a talent crisis. Skill shortages are part of the picture, but perhaps most worrying for business leaders are low levels of engagement and retention as expectations of the employment experience continue to evolve rapidly. So what can employers do to build workforce resilience and get the competitive talent advantage essential to drive long-term value? My guest this week is Tammy Browning, President at KellyOCG. KellyOCG has recently published a comprehensive piece of research looking at workforce resilience. In our conversation, Tammy shares the findings and talks us through the three strategic pillars that are helping employers to build a resilient workforce.
Matt Alder (2m 49s):
Hi Tammy and welcome back to the podcast.
Tammy Browning (3m 23s):
Hi Matt. Thank you again for having me.
Matt Alder (3m 26s):
An absolute pleasure to have you back on the show. Please, could you introduce yourself and tell everyone what you do.
Tammy Browning (3m 33s):
Yeah, happy to. I am the president of KellyOCG. And KellyOCG is an outsourcing and consulting organization that focuses specifically in the Managed Service Pace or MSP, as well as recruitment process and outsourcing. We manage some of the largest global MSPs in the world. And so we have a unique bird’s eye view into what corporations are doing around the globe.
Matt Alder (3m 57s):
And once more, I think last time you were on, we were talking about a report that you had just produced. And you’ve recently published your 2023 Global Rework report. Give us some background to that. What’s the rationale? What’s the methodology? What’s the report all about?
Tammy Browning (4m 14s):
Yeah, actually we did launch it again for 2023. But you know, it’s fascinating. We launched this report back in 2017, initially out of our APAC region. It was an idea to be able to give corporations a roadmap If you will for what the talent and organizations were thinking and feeling during the pandemic. And with such wonderful reviews, we expanded that to include the rest of the globe. And this year, in 2023, what’s most exciting is not only did we interview the 1500 C-suite level executives, we also interviewed over 4,200 individuals, the talent. This is the first time that we’ve been able to bring together the voice of the talent and the voice of the organizations in one report and we did that across 11 different countries.
Tammy Browning (5m 3s):
So, the report really is still focusing on overall talent and corporations around workforce resiliency. And you’re going to hear a lot from me about sort of what the report is suggesting is the huge disconnect between what the talent wants and what the corporations are asking for.
Matt Alder (5m 21s):
Absolutely. I mean, what a great sample size to work from. And what an important time as well because it feels like we’re at this kind of massive crossroads when it comes to talent, and work, and talent acquisition, and all those kind of things. So, you know, really interested to kind of hear sort of more about what you found, picking up on that thing straight away about what talent wants for employers and where the mismatch might be. We’ve heard so much about the great resignation, quiet quitting, whatever the next one is. It’s obvious that there’s a lot going on there. How are people feeling at work at the moment?
Tammy Browning (5m 55s):
I think it’s safe to say right now employers are just really, frankly failing to meet the needs of the talent in many areas. And you know, the report itself is showing that very clearly this great resignation or quiet quitting is truly here and it is here to stay. In fact, 28% of the talent say they are very likely to leave their employer in the next 12 months. Now, that’s actually down from last year but is still a staggering number when you consider that organizations use their talent really for their global strategies, initiatives, and engagement. And when you look at the talent suggesting throughout the port report that they’re feeling unloved, overworked, underwhelmed, overlooked.
Tammy Browning (6m 43s):
It’s just an alarming wake-up call for corporations and globally around the world to do something slightly different. It’s really an interesting time that we’re in where the talent still is saying, “Listen, throughout the pandemic maybe corporations did some wonderful things and we’ve really gone backwards.” And the talent is saying that their organizations aren’t delivering on the promises that they made over the previous three years of, around DE&I. Keeping talent top of mind when it comes to mental health. Really creating paths and career paths for organizations in the talent saying it was a bunch of lip service is really what the report is showing.
Matt Alder (7m 23s):
Let’s dig into the DE&I part of that first because that’s something that employers said was incredibly important to them and their biggest focus. What’s actually happening in practice?
Tammy Browning (7m 35s):
You know, it’s organizations today, let’s be really fair to the organizations. There’s been a lot coming at every company around the world. It doesn’t matter what region you’re in. There’s been some sort of unrest in the geographical landscapes that we’re in today. And there’s also been economic headwinds that have really changed the mindset of many organizations over the last several years, but in particular this year. And so, I think the intentions of organizations have always been correct and right. But 47% of executives admit, and I use the word admit really clearly, that DE&I is only lip service or, or a check-the-box exercise. And only 22% of them have actually done something about it.
Tammy Browning (8m 19s):
Such as, you know, creating programs for that underrepresented talent group that many companies said, you know, we will focus on finding ways and pathways for this talent to find work in ways that enrich their lives. And then there’s this other notion that comes out in the report around DE&I fatigue. And the fact that there’s been so much time spent on it over the last couple of years, why? 13% of executives believe that the demanding workloads and sort of this under-resourced impact that’s happened across organizations has been really to the forefront. In fact, again, back to that mental health and wellbeing, there was a lot of pressure around putting programs in place, yet only 18% of executives say that their culture, the actual employee culture is adopting of these types of changes.
Tammy Browning (9m 12s):
And what’s staggering about that is it’s down from 33% from 22. So meaning organizations that really felt like they were going to put all these initiatives in place. DE&I initiatives 30% decline year over year in this report in terms of how it is resonating with the workforce and how it’s being culturally adapted within their organizations. And so there’s this disconnect between what the talent is saying, the talent specifically, 43% of them say that they feel in a non-inclusive environment. That the behaviors of the employer hasn’t changed. That they believe that they still intend on leaving and don’t feel, again, that they feel unloved and overworked.
Tammy Browning (9m 54s):
It’s a fascinating disconnect.
Matt Alder (9m 55s):
And can you touch a little bit more on the sort of the mental health part of this and also the career pathway. The other things that are driving this discontent?
Tammy Browning (10m 3s):
Yeah, so when you think about Mental health and you think about organizations ability to make them feel like they’re safe and secure in their jobs, feeling like they’re not overworked, feeling like they’re part of an organization, feeling connected to the purpose and the meaning of a company. When you have the disconnect that we have where corporations are saying, we’ve put initiatives in place, but the cultures either not aligning to it, or frankly we don’t have enough resources or people to manage it from a long-term perspective to ensure that the organization is adopting the strategies that we put in place. It’s falling to the wayside, which is why the report declined so drastically from 2022 to 2023.
Tammy Browning (10m 48s):
So I think what organizations really need to do is make sure that they’re aligning their initiatives, their core initiatives, their strategies, and their visions for talent attraction, talent sustainability, and overall resiliency in their organization to ensure that they don’t have it, a mass fallout of talent. Again, that organizations are expecting, you know, nearly 25% of the workforce to resign in the next year. It’s important that for their own sustainability as a company, their business continuities, their corporation initiatives, that those things don’t get forgotten during this very unsettled time in our world today.
Matt Alder (11m 25s):
As you say there, you know, a quarter to a third of the workforce planning on changing jobs. I mean, the impact of that is huge. Is that something that leaders are recognizing in terms of the threat to their organizations?
Tammy Browning (11m 40s):
I think so. I think there’s this idea that it is concern. I think talent attraction, talent retention is still top of mind for many corporations. It’s the how and what we need to do as companies to sustain that. And when you think about, you know, kind of going back to that notion of quiet quitting. So you think, you know, 25 to 28% of people plan on leaving, then you have 45% of that population that says they’ve been quiet quitting. And frankly Matt, I was one of those people as a leader and as driving a global organization that didn’t subscribe to this notion of quiet quitting. I’ve always felt like quiet quitting was something that had been happening since the beginning of time.
Tammy Browning (12m 22s):
But when you think about 28% plan on leaving and 45% are quiet quitting, it doesn’t leave a whole lot of people engaged in the overall organizational strategy. And so what we’re seeing is, is really productivity declines. We’re seeing corporations suggest that their overall outcomes, their business performance is struggling, their financial performance is struggling. So, it’s a real issue that we as employers and as voices for the talent need to be able to highlight this disconnect between both the talent and the company’s philosophies around how they’re engaging their workforce.
Matt Alder (13m 4s):
In the report, you talk about resilience leaders in terms of what employers can do to deal with some of these issues moving forward. Talk to us about that. And you know, talk to us about Workforce Resilience and what the key elements of this are?
Tammy Browning (13m 20s):
Yeah, so when you think about Workforce Resilience. First, it’s really when an organization makes a conscious effort to build the necessary workforce strategies to remain competitive and successful in the business market, regardless of the dynamics that are being thrown at them every given day. And so workforce resiliency really breaks down, and the way we break it down in the report is in four critical areas. So think of it like workforce agility, which is that scalability of using your workforce in an objective way and the shifting market. So those are things like using outsourcing firms, consulting firms, contingent labor, making sure that you’re bringing people in to do the work necessary, and focusing on business outcomes and objectives.
Tammy Browning (14m 9s):
So that’s workforce agility. The other, again, creating this resiliency is organizations that are focusing on diversity, equity, and inclusion as top of mind. That it’s that connectivity of the talent to the work that is purposeful for them. So it’s DE&I and purpose are very important workforce capabilities. So it’s sort of the right mix of talent that’s equipped with the right strategies, both digitally enabled as well as organizational future business objectives and really making sure that those things are all in alignment together and working in concert. The businesses that sort of struggle with that and need to strengthen that really find that they reach their full potential.
Tammy Browning (14m 52s):
In fact, 46% of leaders say that the difficulties in finding and retaining talent are really their primary reason for missing their business opportunities and their objectives. So, again, 46% of organizations say, if we don’t have a resilient workforce, we’re more likely to not meet our financial goals, our business objectives, and our outcomes.
Matt Alder (15m 14s):
And to us more about the pillars that these things are built on and what sort of percentage of leaders are actually embracing them?
Tammy Browning (15m 21s):
Yeah, so when you think about the overall organizations, so there are, in the report we have really the two different types of executives. We have those that are really embracing of what we call workforce resiliency, and then we have the laggards or the organizations that are just falling behind for whatever reason. And about 33% of organizations are in fact in the laggard category. So when you think about their not putting these pillars in place, and they are in fact seeing their business objectives decline. They’re seeing a talent attraction decline. They’re struggling to retain talent. And frankly, they’re struggling to even bring in new business as a result of not having all of those initiatives in place.
Tammy Browning (16m 7s):
So again, the executives that are suggesting 53% of them are suggesting a more profitable work place as a result of having a resilient workforce. So, 53% of executives say we’re more profitable and we’re more scalable, we’re more sustainable, and our turnover has declined as a result of having those pillars in place.
Matt Alder (16m 28s):
One of the things that we haven’t talked about in detail is AI and automation. And I think it’s probably against the law these days to have an interview where you don’t talk about AI.
Tammy Browning (16m 38s):
Yeah.
Matt Alder (16m 38s):
So, I just wanted to ask you about that. You know, what are the kind of attitudes from employers and employees towards AI? And how it’s going to sort of affect things moving forward?
Tammy Browning (16m 51s):
I think it’s the million-dollar question, right? Maybe we should ask ChatGPT what they think about that question. But, you know, I think what’s really happened, it’s been an interesting journey to watch over the last three years, particularly in the report. But to keep in mind employees are skeptical about the impacts of technology in AI and the workplace. But they are not opposed to it. And we’ve been reporting on that from the very beginning. In fact, 71% of talent actually thinks AI in their job or AI in business performance or tools or resources available to them, they’re very excited about it. In fact, 33% of them say they feel like it’s a more positive outcome for them as an employee.
Tammy Browning (17m 36s):
So again, 71% say I’m all for it. 33% have said it’s helped my job. So, workforce resilient leaders are really ahead of the pack on making sure that they’re implementing automation AI where possible. 61% are successful at doing it. So, it’s not always as easy as it sounds. Only 33% back to your question on, you know, kind of the two types of organizations, 33% of the laggards are really not addressing technology in the workplace or just don’t have enough knowledge base to be able to drive it into their organization. So, companies are using technology to automate repetitive tasks. They’re looking at increasing employee engagement, they’re looking at, you know, how they can drive different talent strategies using AI.
Tammy Browning (18m 21s):
So they’re even using AI to attract and retain talent. So really resilient workforces are doing that. In fact, we’ve got a handful of companies today when you think about the fact that we are a global employer and in fact provide talent across many of the Global Fortune 100. When you think about that, we have many that are using AI every day in how they’re looking at jobs or categories or labor categories have using bots or as we call our digital worker, our Kelly Fusion worker, where we put an in a bot in place of an individual. And this is becoming more and more the norm in some jobs today.
Tammy Browning (19m 4s):
I think we will see what was AI talked about for the last 10 years really come top of mind here in this next year. And what’s gonna be even more fascinating is what our reports will say in the coming years around the adoption of automation and the upskilling and re-skilling of the talent necessary to get them to the next level in their career. So we can enable the technology to do what it can do and enable the talent to do what is necessary. Because it’s very clear that humans were always going to be necessary in the workforce. It’s how can we supplement them and how can we use technology to our benefit and really help with talent attraction and talent engagement across our corporations.
Matt Alder (19m 43s):
I suppose sort of focusing in as a final question on what your future reports might say. You obviously the report paints quite a challenging picture here for many employers with, you know, a huge amount to do to get to where they need to be. Are you optimistic for the future? Do you think that the needle will start to move? Where do you think we might be in another two years’ time?
Tammy Browning (20m 7s):
I think what we’ve found in the report, and because I mentioned early on this report is the first that we have the voice of the talent. It will be interesting to see how that changes dynamically next year in the report. Because when we look at it from the corporation perspective or those 1500 C-suite executives, we saw some pretty significant movement. Some of the statistics I gave, you know, the 53% of executives say their profitability is improved as a result of a resilient workforce, but that’s actually down 62% from the prior year. So meaning their priorities are shifting every day in every corporation. And I think any of us that are keeping an eye and a pulse on what’s happening economically and the headwinds that we’re facing, we need to be much more ahead of what the talent is saying and what the corporation’s needs and demands are.
Tammy Browning (20m 60s):
So I suspect what we’ll see is a disconnect again next year. I think there are so many priorities coming at every executive in every major corporation that the talent is often the last thing they’re thinking about. And I would just suggest that for a long-term future, I hope that’s not the case in the report next year. My desire would be that we would see a significant pivot back to the resilient, the pillars that we discussed, and the resiliency in the workforce. Because I think there’s this disconnect again between profitability of a company and how you can become more successful through your talent. And instead, what our reports are suggesting, and I believe what even next year’s report will suggest is that the talent is the afterthought.
Tammy Browning (21m 42s):
So how do we put the talent back into the thought leadership that we need them to be in, which is really helping us become stronger organizations over time?
Matt Alder (21m 53s):
Thank you very much for talking to me.
Tammy Browning (21m 56s):
Thank you, Matt. Thanks for having me.
Matt Alder (21m 59s):
My thanks to Tammy. You can subscribe to this podcast in Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, or via your podcasting app of choice. Please also follow the show on Instagram. You can find us by searching for Recruiting Future. You can search all the past episodes at recruitingfuture.com. On that site, you can also subscribe to our monthly newsletter, Recruiting Future Feast, and get the inside track about everything that’s coming up on the show. Thanks very much for listening.
Matt Alder (22m 57s):
I’ll be back next time and I hope you’ll join me.
