Employer branding is under pressure in many organizations at the moment, and layoffs and budget cuts are hitting the function hard. However, anyone with even the most basic understanding of employer and talent branding can see how short-sighted this is and how vital building an employer brand is for a company’s long-term future.
So how can we highlight the importance of employer branding and make employers see it as an essential function?
My guest this week is Alex Her, Head of Employer Branding at GoDaddy and a global advocate for its importance. Alex has some excellent advice on illustrating impact and ROI and some interesting insights into the future.
In the interview, we discuss:
• Current challenges and why employer branding is even more important now
• The offboarding experience
• Demonstrating strategic value and ROI
• What are the most powerful metrics?
• Storytelling
• Chat GPT, AI and technology
• Doing the work
• What does the future of employer branding look like
If you want to hear more from Alex, he is speaking at RecFest USA, which is taking place on the 13th & 14th of September in Nashville. Take it from me as someone who has been to RecFest many times; it is a unique and hugely valuable experience.
You can find out more here and as a Recruiting Future listener, you can get 50% off the ticket price by using the promo code Recruitingfuture23
Listen to this podcast on Apple Podcasts.
Transcript:
SHL (0s):
Support for this podcast is provided by SHL. From talent acquisition through to talent management, SHL Solutions provide your organization with the power and scale to build your business with the skilled, motivated, and energized workforce you need. SHL takes the guesswork out of growing a talented team by helping you match the right people to the right moments with simplicity and speed. They equip recruiters and leaders with people insights at an organization, team, and individual level, accelerating growth, decision-making, talent mobility, and inspiring an inclusive culture.
SHL (44s):
To build a future where businesses thrive because their people thrive, visit shl.com to learn more.
Matt Alder (Intro) (1m 11s):
Hi there. This is Matt Alder Welcome to Episode 509 of the Recruiting Future Podcast. Employer branding is under pressure in many organizations at the moment, and layoffs and budget cuts are hitting the function hard. However, anyone with even the most basic understanding of employer and talent branding can see how short-sighted this is and how vital building an employer brand is for a company’s long-term future. So how can we highlight the importance of employer branding and make employers see it as an essential function that it is? My guest this week is Alex Her, Head of Employer Branding at GoDaddy and a global advocate for its importance.
Matt Alder (Intro) (1m 58s):
Alex has some excellent advice on illustrating impact and ROI and some interesting insights into the future.
Matt Alder (2m 7s):
Hi Alex and welcome to the podcast.
Alex Her (2m 9s):
Hey Matt, thanks for having me.
Matt Alder (2m 11s):
An absolute pleasure to have you on the show. Please, could you introduce yourself and tell everyone on what you do?
Alex Her (2m 18s):
Yeah. Hey, Alex Her as Matt mentioned. Head of Employer Branding at GoDaddy. I also founder of the EB Space, a Discord Employer brand community. Been in this space for better part of six years and just love all things fmployer branding, mentorship. And just helping others learn more about the amazing things that we do in the Employer Branding space.
Matt Alder (2m 41s):
Absolutely, and really the last six years has been such an interesting time for employer branding as well. It was a very interesting time to be involved with it, basically.
Alex Her (2m 49s):
Agreed.
Matt Alder (2m 49s):
Talk us through the current challenges with employer brand. Because you know, like everything, it’s been through a lot of disruption, a lot of change. There’s lots of challenges around and things are changing again since the pandemic. Talk us through the current challenges.
Alex Her (3m 6s):
Yeah, I think some of the current challenges, obviously ChatGPT is one that is making waves across every sector within TA or just any form of any area that has like writing. And I think with the Employer Branding, it’s okay, hey, does it make it better, better copywriting? You know, you’re only as good as the technology, but it, or how do we make that work? I also think the other big elephant in the room is while Employer Branding has come a long way, a lot of folks are just getting laid off or functions, Employer Branding functions at companies are just completely being removed.
Alex Her (3m 48s):
And I think that’s a huge issue because it shows that we’ve come a long way, but we have, you know, there’s much more work to do to make it a, a mainstay at all major companies where they have to view Employer Branding as, “Okay, you need that there for better or for worse.” And I think we have to do a better job. And that’s I challenge that to myself and those in the industry to do a better job of selling that and making this a relevant function that has to be there at a company. And I think we’ve got a ways to go when it comes to that.
Matt Alder (4m 21s):
No, absolutely. And I wanna talk about that in a second and really get your views on how other employer brand leaders, people doing Employer Branding can kind of really prove their value.
Alex Her (4m 31s):
Mm-hmm.
Matt Alder (4m 31s):
Before we do though, I’m really interested to get your perspective on why Employer Branding is so important and perhaps why it’s so important right now?
Alex Her (4m 42s):
Yeah, I think it’s huge right now because we look at Employer Branding — you know, if you give like an EB one-on-one course, and I’ve done this several times, you look at Employer Branding from the point of where it’s top of funnel. You’re trying to capture someone’s attention before they join the company. And I think a lot of companies are missing is it’s not just them and not just also when they have actually joined the company. The offboarding experience, when you’re letting individuals go, that’s huge as well. Because they’re going to remember how they were treated when you sold them on all these amazing things and why they joined the company and they will definitely remember how you treated them when they left the company.
Alex Her (5m 25s):
Yeah, everyone has to make business decisions. That’s just the reality of the world and the state of the economy at the moment. However, if you do that in a, you know, I would say in a respectful and graceful way, people will look at that and say, “Okay, you know what, it was a good experience all around.” And I think that does make a huge impact on if they will potentially be boomerangs one day, which is another aspect of Employer Branding and the candidate experience.
Matt Alder (5m 52s):
We mentioned that employer brand leaders will be under sort of tremendous pressure at the moment to demonstrate the strategic value and the ROI that Employer Branding provides. What would your advice be in terms of how people can do that effectively and really communicate the value to key stakeholders in the business?
Alex Her (6m 15s):
Yeah, my advice to them and my challenge to them would be, okay. Are you working in silos? Are you’re working on your own and just posting up stuff on your Employer Branding based platforms and just hoping that they’re going to see that? That’s not going to cut it anymore. Especially at times where okay. Companies need to make the best decisions for themselves and choose what they want to keep around, honestly. And I think that’s okay. Getting constant meetings with leadership, the right stakeholders you should be meeting with as well outside of if you sit with them TA, internal comms of marketing outside of that. Because what we do works well when everyone works together as a team.
Alex Her (6m 54s):
And that requires other stakeholders knowing what you’re doing and also knowing the value. Like not just okay impressions and clicks. Like that’s great for us. We know that when it comes to some of these native platforms, but how does that relate to them? Are they seeing okay? Are they seeing a lower cost per applicant? Cost per hire? Are they seeing a higher quality of source? Quality applicants coming through the door? And are you also then in turn taking that work? And are you lowering their spends and dependency on job boards? You have to show what you’re doing that is making that much of a difference. And if you’re just sitting there and you’re not sharing that, you’re hoping that they’re just going to naturally gravitate towards you and randomly feel that what you do is important.
Alex Her (7m 39s):
I think you’re gong to find yourself on the outside looking in.
Matt Alder (7m 43s):
Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, obviously, this is going to be different from company to company and sector to sector. But in your experience, what are the most sort of powerful statistics or metrics that employer brand professionals can use to really demonstrate the ROI that they need to be demonstrating at the moment?
Alex Her (8m 6s):
Yeah, I think a lot of it you have at the tips of your fingers. It’s Google Analytics showing – you know because you can show all the, how all the campaigns are performing? UTM tracking links are phenomenal. That’s going to give you a lot of information to work with there. And then how it flows into your Google Analytics? How things have changed from time to time? I mean they have a nifty little button there that allows you to compare. So I would challenge individuals to compare what was done before comparing it to when you arrived at the company. And let’s say if you’ve had a quarter to do that. And that’s personally how I do things. I run things quarter to quarter, so I show that value instantly.
Alex Her (8m 48s):
And see what’s changed. You know, if you’ve done your work from with external campaigns, you’ll say, “Okay, hey, there’s a lot more social traffic coming in. There’s a lot more direct traffic coming in, which is huge.” I think that’s one that people discount. Because outside of cost per applicant, cost per hire, direct traffic means you’ve done a lot, right? You have a lot of different content marketing. Would it be blogs, graphics, videos that have captured their attention. Where they’re not just clicking on the link or the ads that you’re pushing out there. They have made the conservative effort to type this in, whether it be on a mobile device or on the laptop to find you. So you’re already in their heads.
Alex Her (9m 28s):
You’ve done enough to convince them to be a passive job seeker to an active job seeker. And I think that one is huge. And then the other one I would say is definitely the quality of the source and the quality of the applicant. Like when they’re coming through, yes, you may always be looking for hires from a source. Don’t get me wrong. I think that’s phenomenal. However, if you see them getting to different stages of the interview process that tells you that whatever you implement it, early on in your time there at your respective company, it’s working. It’s working, and you’re finding better quality individuals who will make a difference, who do wanna join your company.
Matt Alder (10m 11s):
A lot of Employer Branding is about storytelling. Taking those internal stories and telling them externally. How might those storytelling skills help tell the story of the power and the value of employer brand internally? I mean you obviously mentioned lots of statistics and things like that. How could people bring that together into a really powerful story?
Alex Her (10m 36s):
Ah, man, I think there’s a lot you can do there, honestly. And that it’s also, it’s a double-edged sword, right? I think if you’re seeing that there, you have a great culture. And I think that honestly a lot of that plays into the success that we can have as employer brand practitioners. Because if you’ve got a good culture, you know, just look at what you have there. Whether you have like local slack or teams channels or if there’s all hands that are going on and the type of stories or responses you’re getting from that, or even as simple as email or just different conversations you’re having with teammates. Those are stories that you can take.
Alex Her (11m 17s):
And okay, take into consideration like what you’re hearing. If you’re hearing these amazing things or doing outside of work or fitness type of stories or stories of side hustles. They’re your themes right there. Obviously it’s a matter of being GDPR compliance and getting proper responses from them to share those stories. But you do have common themes that are there. Like, I can’t tell you how many times I’ve done that not just at my current employer, but other places where those stories are there to be had, right? And, it takes someone to listen to those individuals and say, “Hey, I I would love to share this.” And like we did that here with our five to nine series.
Alex Her (11m 60s):
Also simple one that every single employer brander can put together is a day in the life or team focused type of stories or locational stories. There’s endless possibilities. Like you don’t have to reinvent the will, right? Everything is there for you. Just a matter of capturing that and determining, “Okay, how do you want to amplify that to an external audience?”
Matt Alder (12m 26s):
You mentioned ChatGPT at the start of the conversation.
Alex Her (12m 31s):
Mm-hmm.
Matt Alder (12m 31s):
What role should technology play in Employer Branding? How are you seeing organizations use technology to make their Employer Branding more effective?
Alex Her (12m 40s):
I think honestly technology plays a huge role in what we do because for every employer brand shop that has a team. And, it could be two to three individuals. There are plenty of companies that do have just one individual. A solo talent brander that is doing everything. And if you’re that one person doing everything, and I’ve been in this position before, you’re going to need some assistance from technology. Now, it’s not going to do everything for you. It’s going to make it a hell lot easier though.
Matt Alder (13m 14s):
We’ve mentioned that obviously employer branding like lots of parts of talent acquisition and talent in general is going through a lot of challenges at the moment.
Alex Her (13m 24s):
Mm-hmm.
Matt Alder (13m 24s):
Looking on the other side of all of this, what do you think the future of employer branding is gonna look like?
Alex Her (13m 32s):
I still think we are going to get to the point, I’m very confident in this. I’m not just on this out there. I think you will see more teams, more companies that do prioritize and value what it is that we do. And better and deeper understanding of the space. Because right now I think it’s — we’ve come a long way. So it’s a pandemic. The the amount of job openings that are out there. I think are phenomenal, right? They’re still quite a bit, regardless of the layoffs. However, it’s a matter of us just taking it to a deeper level and having individuals who truly do that. And I mean this, who actually are fully involved in Employer Branding Space that can speak to that because it’s still very much, it’s a fad.
Alex Her (14m 20s):
And I think you have a lot of talent acquisition, folks who like to add that on to their LinkedIns who – yes, you can say, you know Employer Branding, but do you know it, have you done the work outside of making hot takes and not actually showcasing what work you can do? I think we’ll get a spot to where. There’s a lot of individuals who, hey, they can whip up an EVP. They can give you a recruitment marketing strategy, content marketing strategy, and they can tie that together. And I see us getting there. and I don’t think it’s going to be too long, but we will get there. And, it’s going to be a, a much more mature and force to be reckoned with type of function at a company.
Matt Alder (15m 1s):
Tell us more about your discord EB space. Tell us more about that.
Alex Her (15m 7s):
Yeah, yeah, sure. So it’s a community that built with a good friend based outta UK, Claire de Souza. And we wanted a space for employer brand consultants or in-house practitioners who were not just based in one country versus the other, right? A true global community where, okay, we could take our conversations to a deeper level. Deeper level, we could work through problems and be there for one another. And still early on we’re about to reach 300 members, but it’s something that we enjoy because it takes us away from some of the familiar platforms, right?
Alex Her (15m 49s):
Like LinkedIn groups, Facebook or just any of the other type of channels that are out there. And, it allows you to do everything on Discord. You can break everything down by different channels, sub-channel in terms of like, if there’s job openings, resources. You can even host your own. I mean, we did our first AMA session with videos right inside there, right? You can never have to leave it. And that’s always the best experience for anybody who’s a part of a community or a group because you don’t want to bounce between four or five platforms. You want everything there. And it’s been amazing, honestly, like we’re a month in and I’m looking forward to growing the community even more. And yeah, take a to new heights.
Matt Alder (16m 31s):
And as a final question, what’s your favorite piece of Employer Branding work or strategy that, that you’ve seen recently outside of your own organization?
Alex Her (16m 47s):
Hmm, let’s see. I was talking to, gosh, Nick Thompson about this. And I like the metric that he’s come up with. I know he was recently on your show, Matt. And it was the cost per, I believe it was cost per time. And it was a unique metric that I don’t see anybody using. You know, something I want to dive deeper into. But outside of that, then I would say there’s been a lot of great things at Emily Firth who’s friend of the space and consultant. She’s done some really good things where it’s challenged the norm. And then, last plug here, I promise James Ellis is running a phenomenal chorus just to show individuals that you don’t need a six figure budget to put together your employer brand and EVP.
Alex Her (17m 36s):
And I think that’s huge because it’s opening up more doors than it’s closing, which I think is going to go along with what I mentioned earlier, that it’s going to help to mature, and expand the space.
Matt Alder (17m 48s):
Yeah, absolutely. There’s so much talent in this space, And, it’s just really interesting to watch and see how it’s going to develop. Alex, thank you very much for talking to me.
Alex Her (17m 59s):
Yeah, thanks for having me.
Matt Alder (18m 1s):
My thanks to Alex. If you want to hear more from him, he’s speaking at RecFest USA later in the year. It’s taking place on the 13th and 14th of September in Nashville. Take it from me as someone who’s been to RecFest many times, it’s a unique and highly valuable experience. You can find out more by going to recfest.com/usa. And as a Recruiting Future listener, you can get 50% off the ticket price by using the promo code Recruitingfuture23. That’s Recruitingfuture23. You can subscribe to this podcast in Apple Podcasts, on Spotify or via your podcasting app of choice.
Matt Alder (18m 44s):
Please also follow the show on Instagram. You can find us by searching for Recruiting Future. You can search all the past episodes at recruitingfuture.com. On that site you can also subscribe to our monthly newsletter, Recruiting Future Feast, and get the inside track about everything that’s coming up on the show. Thanks very much for listening.
Matt Alder (19m 34s):
I’ll be back next time and I hope you’ll join me.
