Back in April, I ran a live podcast conference on the future of talent acquisition in partnership with the team at TA Tech. We had ten excellent speakers across five topic sessions, and I’m delighted to now be able to bring you the content to you as a series of podcasts. I’m releasing these every Friday for the next few weeks, so if you don’t want to miss them, make sure you have subscribed to the show.
Following on from the Recruitment Marketing, Recruitment Advertising, and DE&I sessions I’ve already published, this week’s episode looks at Recruiting Automation. This is a big topic, and I was delighted to have two guests who come at it from very different angles, Trent Cotton, VP Talent Acquisition at Bureau Veritas Group and Roberto Angulo, CEO Recruitology.
In the conversation, we discuss:
▪ The possibilities of recruiting automation
▪ Speed of adoption
▪ Organization size
▪ Key strategic elements
▪ The future of Natural Language Processing
▪ The future of AI
▪ A balance between humans and machines
▪ How do the candidates feel about automation?
▪ Where are we heading in the future?
Listen to this podcast in Apple Podcasts.
Transcript:
Matt Alder [00:00:17]:
Hi everyone and welcome to a special bonus edition of the Recruiting Future podcast. Back in April, I ran a live podcast conference on the future of talent acquisition in partnership with the team at TA Tech. We had 10 excellent speakers across five topic sessions and I’m delighted to now be able to bring you the content as a series of podcasts. I’m releasing these every Friday for the next few weeks, so if you don’t want to miss them, make sure you’ve subscribed to the show. Following on from the recruitment, marketing, recruitment advertising and DE&I sessions, I’ve already published this week’s episode looks at recruiting automation. This is a very big topic and I was delighted to have two guests who come at it from very different angles. Trent Cotton, VP Talent Acquisition at Bureau Veritas Group, and Roberto Angulo, CEO of Recruitology.
Roberto Angulo [00:01:15]:
My name is Roberto Angulo, I’m based in San Francisco, CEO of Recruitology. Our mission is to help employers leverage artificial intelligence to find the right candidates. So we’re using AI for varied parts of the recruitment process and a lot of times the employer doesn’t even know they’re using AI. So our job is to make the employer connect with the right folks.
Matt Alder [00:01:39]:
Fantastic stuff. And Trent, could you introduce yourself and tell us what you do?
Trent Cotton [00:01:43]:
I’m Trent Cotton with Vero Veritas. It is one of the global leaders in anything that is testing, inspecting or certification. So everything from the food labels on your food to air quality building infrastructure. I learned a little bit every day about just some of the things that we have our hands in. I am the director of Talent Acquisition and Talent retention strategies for all of North America.
Matt Alder [00:02:06]:
Fantastic stuff. Now we’ve got an enormous topic. Recruiting recruiting automation is certainly catch all thing. We’ve already been, you know, we’ve already kind of mentioned it briefly in the, in the recruitment marketing section earlier and also we have two guests who are going to come at it from different perspectives and potentially different kind of aspects of recruiting. Which is, which is great because I think it’s important to have a really sort of broad conversation about this. So I’m going to start off by asking both of you the same question. So let’s, let’s start with Trent this time. So what are you seeing in the market in terms of what’s possible with recruiting automation at various stages of the recruiting funnel? And is the pandemic changing the rate of adoption when it comes to. When it comes to these kind of things.
Trent Cotton [00:02:55]:
Oh, definitely. It’s been really exciting. I think, you know, if I look back two or three years ago, there were a couple that were out there. I call them kind of the infant stages of everything from AI and automation to machine learning. Now there’s such a plethora out there that people in my position, it can be a little overwhelming of going, okay, which solution do I actually need? Which for a geek like me, that’s exciting. I love some of the innovation that’s going on in the industry. I do think, though, that Covid, I wouldn’t necessarily accelerated the innovation. I think it accelerated the perceived need for a lot of TA leaders. I think it really just kind of forced a lot of us to say, okay, we’ve got to start doing this a little bit better. We got to start doing this. And this is not a way to replace our jobs. It’s actually a way for us to spend more time on the things that are, I call them, human centric or human ad to the process. So I think that, you know, Covid was a good punch in the face for everyone in hr, but especially in talent acquisition, because the. The candidate market is getting a lot more tight. There are a lot of changes in the market of changes in behavior. And, you know, the pandemic is still out there. It’s still real. So we still have a huge segment of the population where they don’t really want to make a move because of all the uncertainty. So I do think that the topic has changed, and it’s become a little overwhelming for people that are just kind of tiptoeing into it.
Matt Alder [00:04:20]:
Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, maybe we can sort of come back to that a little bit later, actually, because I think that’s a really, really important point in terms of the way the buyers are being overwhelmed. Roberto, give us your perspective in terms of what’s now possible in the market. What are you seeing? How’s the pandemic changing everything?
Roberto Angulo [00:04:38]:
So, a couple of things. So I agree with Trent. I think the pandemic did a couple of things. Unfortunately, it meant a lot of people lost their jobs initially during last year. For small businesses, it means they had to, or it meant they had to let go of various individuals. For large organizations, the recruiting departments got smaller. And now with the uptick in hiring, you’re seeing small employers, SMBs, needing to hire fast to meet the demand. And from large organizations, you’re seeing the same thing. Slimmer recruiting departments needing to meet the demands of hiring managers with smaller teams. So as a result, the pandemic created this demand for more work. I think we all agree that we’ve all been busier lately in the past few months, and I think automation is helping relieve that. Right. So I think the pandemic has accelerated the adoption of automation and a lot of recruiting processes. And we’re seeing it with small businesses and we’re seeing it with large companies. So we focus typically on small, medium sized businesses and we’re helping them with job distribution, programmatic candidate matching and virtual events. And we’re just seeing an unprecedented record demand for these types of services. A lot of it is from small businesses who just, they need to run a business and they need help recruiting people and that’s not what they focus on. They just need help and they don’t have time. So automation is definitely a welcome thing during these times.
Trent Cotton [00:06:13]:
I’m sorry.
Matt Alder [00:06:13]:
No, carry on.
Trent Cotton [00:06:14]:
Especially in the space that you play. Whenever I do consulting for those types of companies, the recruiting acumen is not as high as it would be at a larger organization where, you know, maybe someone came from an agency and they’re, they’re working at the organization. So I think that, you know, Matt, honestly, some of the technology that’s being introduced out there will allow some of the smaller to mid sized companies to be able to compete on a talent standpoint with some of the larger organizations.
Matt Alder [00:06:43]:
That’s a really interesting point. And again, it makes the market, it makes the market an interesting and a sort of very, very difficult place. I want to sort of talk about strategy a little bit because I think recruiting automation does get sort of thrown around as a catch all term. And I think there’s an interesting difference here between larger employees and smaller employers. But from Trent, from a larger employer perspective, what are the key elements of a recruitment automation strategy? What do employers need to think about before they can go out and start, and start buying technology?
Trent Cotton [00:07:21]:
I always encourage people to look at where are you hurting the most? So if you are having an issue trying to work on the top of the funnel, that’s where you need to look at AI, machine learning, or any kind of a solution to be able to increase the ability for you to be able to reach the particular targets. And also too in diversity, there’s a lot of great products out there that can help diversify that candidate funnel. But to me, there are three different sections that I look at as a leader. The first one I’ve already touched on is the candidate funnel. How do I get in front of more candidates? Qualified candidates, to be able to increase my pipelining ability. The next is once they’re in the door, what are those, what are those things that I can automate everything from scheduling to, I mean if you, if you’re a recruiter and you stop and think about how many emails go back and forth trying to get that prospective candidate on the phone, I mean there are AI things out there that do it, that are just, I mean the integration is so easy. You just plug and play into your calendar and send them a link. I mean that’s just kind of a nice, easy, quick win for someone that wants to tiptoe into the automation world. But then on the back end, once the candidate says I do, I think your earlier guests were talking about just the barrage of everything that is expected out of a recruiter. There are so many products and solutions out there and I think yet to be developed that is going to enhance that candidate experience. So help them be engaged, continue to sell the company, do the check ins and everything that’s not necessarily human needed, but it is a nice touch to make sure that they remain engaged. Those are the three areas that I always kind of look at and then figure out where is my pain point and which one am I suffering the most. And that’s the one that I tackle first.
Matt Alder [00:09:04]:
Absolutely. And Roberta, same question to you, but I suppose from an SMB perspective, Totally.
Roberto Angulo [00:09:09]:
So adding to what Trent just said, I think technology is a means to an end. It’s definitely not the end. Right. So echoing what Trent just said, look at your process and seeing where the biggest pain is. And Trent, you alluded to it. It’s the sourcing, right? The scheduling. These are things that if a human being doesn’t have to do it, they shouldn’t be doing it. A human being should be focused on basically talking to those gems, those candidates that are actually the ones who said I do, using your word, Trent, and the ones who basically are the ones who need to be nurtured. Right. So off the bat, things that could be automated for small companies, for large companies it’s job distribution, I would say. But I would also say the same for small companies. And that’s sort of where we focused. So deciding for a small company that has maybe only three jobs a year, it’s only three jobs, but it could be daunting. Right. So it could be the franchisee at the UPS store who needs to figure out, well, you know, I’m running my business and all of a sudden my helper went back to school. Right. So I need to hire Somebody else. And for a large company recruiter, that could be an easy thing as putting a wreck on your ATS and clicking send. For a small business you don’t know, you may not know where you’re going to find the right candidates are going to be on. Indeed. Is it going to be on Craigslist? Is it going to be on the career center at the local college? So I think automation there, in terms of helping the employer figure out where the job needs to go, where they don’t have to figure out how much they need to pay and how much they need to invest or where the job needs to go, that’s one specific example of automation that’s going to help somebody who’s just busy and that helps small employers, but also big employers in terms of virtual events. So in our case, our virtual event platform, one of the things it does that sort of gets taken for granted, but once people are using it, it’s appreciated. You have, let’s say you have 50 candidates waiting in queue, virtual queue, to talk to recruiter. And traditionally, if you’re a job fair, you’re waiting to talk to those folks or those folks are waiting to talk to you and you’re talking to them one by one based on who showed up first. Right. But maybe there’s somebody who’s pretty relevant who showed up and they’re in 50th place and you don’t want them to lose attention or sort of get bored and leave. So that’s an example where candidate ranking can help you prioritize somebody who showed up and it’s in the 45th place in line, so you should be talking to them. And yes, the person who showed up first, maybe they deserve some tlc. But if they’re not relevant at all to any of your jobs, then don’t spend as much time with them. So AI can serve a lot of different needs, subtle needs. They can just sort of fill in the gaps and fill those cracks to just make the life of a recruiter a lot easier. And it helps small employers, it helps recruiters who are in working in smaller teams at larger organizations as well.
Matt Alder [00:12:07]:
I think it would be remiss to have a conversation about recruiting automation without diving into some of the technology and the technology innovations that are sort of moving the industry forward. And I’m going to kind of put this question to Roberto because I know it’s his, it’s his area of expertise, but I’ll sort of come back to Trent for a comment on it. Natural language processing. I mean, how is that driving automation. And how fast is it, how fast is it developing?
Roberto Angulo [00:12:31]:
Yeah, that’s, that’s a great question. So nlp, Natural Language Processing. And, and just quickly, for those who know the acronym but need some more clarity on what it is. Right. It’s the signs of extracting meaning from words and from text or spoken language. Right. So nlp, at least in Recordology’s case, it’s sort of the underlying engine of everything that we do with AI. So NLP means taking a job description, taking a resume, a candidate, and extracting the keywords that are not noise in keywords that are either skills or like credentials or degree information, and making sense of that. And that keeps getting better and better because there’s more providers out there of data that companies can plug into to make their NLP better. Right. And I’ll give you a concrete example. So you look at a job description and then you’re getting all these applicants coming in through your applicant, through your ats. NLP helps you figure out what a good match is so you can rank those candidates. As time goes by, NLP gets better because there’s more data out there. And by data, for example, I mean like Bureau of Labor Statistics in the US Has a lot of data and they classify job openings and they have sort of this taxonomy that’s standard in the US in terms of classifying jobs. Right. And then you have other types of data, like credential data. Now you’re starting to see databases of, okay, these are credentials, and these are credentials in each state in the U.S. so somebody working at NLP can pull that data and say, okay, now I have these keywords in a resume. I know what they mean because I can pull from these third party sources. So as time goes by, there’s more of an industry around data which makes it so that you have just. Same way you can buy algorithms off the shelf for matching, you can now buy data or access free data out there that you can use to make your matching better. Because there’s people actually working on curating that data and saying, yeah, this degree means this, or this acronym means this. Chief Nursing, certified Nursing Assistant is the same thing as cna. It’s just a basic example. Right. But take that across 50,000 different job titles. And the more time goes by, the more that we’ll start seeing some of those data sets become publicly available. And I think it’s an exciting time for just improving nlp, improving matching, and ultimately having better matching and better products for recruiters.
Matt Alder [00:14:57]:
And Trent, coming to you as a Kind of a user and a buyer of automation technology. Have you seen an improvement in IT as this sort of technology has developed over the last couple of years? And where would you hope that it might go next?
Trent Cotton [00:15:11]:
Yes, definitely, definitely increased. I’m still kind of fascinated by the nlp, Roberto. So I was in my happy place. I was taking notes. Yeah, I definitely think that a lot of the platforms are getting smarter. The thing that I am most interested in is now nlp. I’m going to be geek festing on that tonight. But also the analysis of behavior. So you know the sourcing tools that look at. If I put in a job title data scientist and it goes and it analyzes all of its users, all of the other recruiters that uses that platform and says, okay, well in general when someone types in data scientists, they also are looking for this. To me it’s just kind of leveraging the collective brain cloud of all the different colleagues out there. I’ve seen some kind of a little bit of an improvement there, but I think that there’s a lot more to come.
Matt Alder [00:16:03]:
Absolutely. I suppose that takes us onto the next question and again I’ll stick with you, Trent for this one, which is what is the balance between humans and machines in recruiting? This appears to be a sort of a debate that we’ve had for a few years, but perhaps not in quite the nuanced way.
Trent Cotton [00:16:19]:
What do you think from a behavior standpoint? If you look at some of the big decisions that anyone makes in their life that you do not want automated buying a house? Do I want to do all of my research, kind of get some estimates, you know, maybe go and do a virtual tour or even do a self guided tour? Absolutely. But when it comes to negotiating that deal and helping me make that decision, I want a human. I’m sorry, I am usually one of the first to try a technology that is a major decision, that I’m not really ready to trust the technology. There are things out there fantastic. I think they’re still a little early, but that’s a big decision. I think moving into a different role or moving changing careers, that has got that same level of need of human trust that we just haven’t been able to develop within technology. So I don’t think that that’s leaving. So whenever I’m looking at where am I going to augment with technology, I look at those human centric activities. But talking to a candidate and really kind of understanding is this person going to be a fit on a team? Do they bring the necessary skill set? Are they going to be someone that takes this job now, but I can see them growing 5 to 10 years with the company. Can technology do that? Absolutely. I mean, it can use some advanced analytics, but there’s a human gut aspect there that I just, I don’t think that we’re at that point from a technology standpoint. So I think that there’s still a lot of room to grow. And that’s why whenever I talk about the topic, I always get the whole AI Terminator question of when are they going to replace us? I don’t really see that they’re going to replace us anytime in the foreseeable future.
Matt Alder [00:18:07]:
And Roberto, what’s your sort of take on the human machine mix in recruiting?
Roberto Angulo [00:18:13]:
I agree. I think the days where Skynet’s going to take over world are far away, at least in the recruiting space. So I mean, machine learning, or AI specifically, you know, it’s. AI is as good as the data you have underneath, right? So NLP data that’s used to make decisions, and that data is ultimately, I mean, that AI is ultimately as good as the data. And that data often changes because you have new jobs coming in the market, you have new types of skills that are getting acquired. So you always need humans. At least for the foreseeable future, you’re going to need humans to validate the AI. Something, Trent, that you said the collective, and that’s actually one important piece of AI. It’s the feedback loops. So when you have matching, when you have chatbots, even that are doing automated conversations, you always need some human verification once in a while to make sure that the quality is there. You need quality control. It’ll mean you need less people. Right. You’re not going to need to hire as many people to chat with candidates, and you probably are not going to need anyone dedicated to just posting jobs and job boards all day long. And that’s fine. Those people can upskill and get other jobs, but the machines will not replace humans because you still need the humans to make those qualitative decisions to inform and give feedback to the AI. I think what we’re talking about is more deep learning, where the machine starts learning on its own. But it can go off on tangents, right? I mean, in the best cases, you’re seeing deep learning at Google and it’s still not where it needs to be. And recruiting typically lags behind by a few years or a few decades. So I think we’re far away from that. Taking over from the AI taking over. I think AI is going to improve processes Dramatically, it’s going to let employers focus more on the candidate. Using your analogy of buying the house, I think AI is going to help you. If you’re looking online at a house, it’ll say, hey, I recommend these houses based on these other houses you looked, and that’s AI. But ultimately it’s about you need to go look at the house and say, we need to talk to the candidate. And there’s other aspects at play. Right? There’s other tools you can use. There is the human touch of talking to the candidate, getting a good feel for them. Is there a match? And sure, there’s tools that can automate that as well, but not completely. Right. So I think it’ll automate the more mundane work, but in terms of sort of the quality, the ultimate hiring decision and these big decisions, those are very far away. We’ll be doing a lot with less people for sure, but the machines will not be controlling this anytime soon.
Trent Cotton [00:20:58]:
Quite honestly, Matt, I think that as technology continues to advance and everyone in the HR industry gets over this bias and this initial pushback of, no, I don’t want to automate all of this stuff. I think that they’re actually going to enjoy their jobs again because most of us got into HR because we enjoy the human part of human resources, and now we can’t do it. We almost have this disdain for the humans because they’re bringing more admin work that we have to do. But if I’ve got an AI that’s doing all that for me, I can really focus on the relationship and focus on developing that individual. And I think it’s just really going to allow us to enhance what we’re doing. I always like to use the analogy of Ironman whenever I’m explaining what. Whenever I’m looking for recruiters or I’m looking to augment, you know, yeah, the AI in there, in the suit and all of that, that’s fantastic stuff. But it’s still the individual in there that’s taking that information and processing it and then directing that AI. And Roberto, I think that you brought up something that’s really good. I want to caution everyone against just dropping in an AI or automation or whatever tactic you need to. You need to manage it just like an individual. So if you’ve got some kind of processing in there, whether it’s NLP or anything else, you need to go back and audit and put that human touch on it to make sure that it’s actually doing what it’s supposed to do. I think that a lot of Companies are a little cautious after some of the debacles with some of the giants who put in some AI and we found out that there were some despairing actions that were in there. It was because they didn’t go back and check it. So always inspect what you inspect, inspect what you expect, including any kind of technological solution that you put in.
Matt Alder [00:22:47]:
Absolutely. I think that’s kind of a critical point in terms of how these things are implemented and, and kind of rolled out the next question, which I think picks up on something that you both touched on, but I want to go into it in a little bit more detail, leaving time for another question afterwards. One of the, One of the things that I’ve seen this year is that automated chatbots and various other sort of communication technologies are being. Have been used more and more for candidate relations and candidate communications. In both of your experiences, what do the candidates think about that? What are these job seekers? And we’ve talked about through this whole event that it’s very, very difficult to find, to find talent at the moment. What do they think about communicating with robots, for want of a better word?
Trent Cotton [00:23:32]:
I have a funny story. It was about two years ago. I had a. I called it a virtual admin. And the interface, if it had a question that was asked by a candidate or whomever was on the email exchange, it would always ping me back and say, hey, I don’t really understand how to process this question. How do you want me to answer? And one of it is one of my candidates was actually hitting on, because it was called Amy, the AI. And so he thought that that was my admin and he was hitting on her. And the AI was like, I don’t know what to do with this. But to me, it was just kind of, it was kind of interesting that the interaction with that AI was so human that the candidate really didn’t even understand it. And it even had a I on the back of the email. So I think that the interesting thing for me is just the technological advance to where a lot of times whenever people are talking to AI, you don’t even know. I mean, it’s just that seamless. And I’m really excited to see how that continues to evolve. So that way the things that we do automate. It doesn’t lose that human interaction because I don’t know about everybody else, but I hate with a passion calling into something that says DOW1 for this or say this or do that. I mean, I just about lose boost my cool every single time. But there are automatic functions whenever I’M on a website and I’m engaging, and I’m usually thinking to myself, I’m engaging with an AI, but God, they’re really, really good. So I think that candidates, as long as it’s done right, they won’t know the difference.
Matt Alder [00:25:00]:
But Roberto, what’s your perspective? You talked about moving people up in the queue in a virtual job fair based on their automated matching them to the role. What are the candidates think and feel about all of this?
Roberto Angulo [00:25:12]:
So I think it’s good for the candidate, ultimately. Right, so that’s a good example. Right. In the example where the candidate who was sort of waiting in line, sort of very behind in the queue, they got moved up because they were more relevant. So that’s AI at work, and that’s good for that specific candidate. You know, the candidate who was number one in line, who got sort of bumped up and put back. Another thing the AI can do is recommend more relevant jobs for that candidate. Right. So that’s an example of how AI can benefit the candidate. Let’s take chatbots, for example. Right. One complaint we hear from job seekers, from job boards that we power is that they oftentimes don’t hear back from the employer. The biggest complaint is always the black hole where you submit your resume and you don’t hear back. So one of the things that chatbots can do, for example, it doesn’t matter if it’s a chatbot, as long as you can provide the candidate with meaningful info. So if somebody’s asking, hey, what’s the status of my application? If the chatbot can say, well, if your application is being reviewed, it just got reviewed yesterday, it’s going to be reviewed by somebody else. That’s some insight. And whether that’s delivered by a human or by a chatbot, it doesn’t matter. In fact, the chatbot’s probably better for the candidate because the chatbot can respond during after hours when there’s no human being awake, was able to answer that, that question. So ultimately, I think if the chatbot can provide meaningful data or they can take some action that a human being could take, that’s ultimately good for the candidate. So I say it’s beneficial for the candidate experience.
Matt Alder [00:26:54]:
Absolutely. And that actually is going to be a topic that we’re going to be talking about in the next session to sort of finish off again, we’re up against time. These half an hour sessions are way too, are way too short. And this has been a. Another fantastic conversation. So I’m going to finish by asking you really, your Sort of your predictions for the, for the future, in terms of recruiting, automation and in terms of. In terms of talent acquisition, where do you think we’re headed? And Roberto, you can. You can go first.
Roberto Angulo [00:27:24]:
So, in terms of where we’re headed, I think. I think humans are going to be working with machines. So again, I think, as I mentioned earlier, it’s going to be more about training the data. So deep learning is still far away in recruiting specifically, I think. So for now, I think AI is going to be really good for recruiters, either at large companies where they’re spread thin with too many requisitions and big sourcing demands, and for small employers who just don’t do recruiting, maybe they do it three, four times a year. AI is going to be beneficial to them. So it’s going to be a way to automate tasks, things that the employer shouldn’t be focused on. And this whole deep learning, machines taking over humans, I think that’s very far away. At least a decade, I would say. But nothing beats the human touch, especially when it comes to looking for a job and hiring somebody for a role.
Matt Alder [00:28:18]:
And, Trent, I know that you’re someone who likes to think deeply about the future. Give us your perspective.
Trent Cotton [00:28:23]:
Oh, you. And I’ve already talked about my recruiting utopia, where as a. As a talent agent, I can come in and say, all right, who am I going to talk to today? Because my little AI buddies have already gone through the ranking, the screening, the sourcing, and I can spend time on the things that I really like, which is getting to know people and finding the right place in the right organization for them. Honestly, I think that with all of the tech that’s out there, whether it’s from sourcing to the chatbots to, you know, all the different arrays of onboarding, it’s going to be interesting to me, Matt, to watch the ATS industry try to catch up. I think for so long, they, you know, they were built for an HR process, definitely not for a human process. And so it’s really going to be interesting for me to kind of watch that industry and see how are they going to continue to remain relevant, honestly, because they’ve been so stagnant and really they’re all just like one or two variations of each other, whereas whenever I look at some of this other new technology, all of them offer a different solution. So to me, that’s kind of the thing that I’ve got my eye on right now and just continue to watch how much technology and innovation is going to continue to transform talent acquisition to where all of us can spend more time developing those relationships. Developing relationships and really becoming talent consultants for our clients. Because now we’ll be enabled to because we have our little AI buddies doing all the. All the junk that we don’t want to do.
Matt Alder [00:29:48]:
Absolutely. The Talent Avengers of the Talent Avengers.
Trent Cotton [00:29:52]:
Hey, we need to work on the boat like that.
Matt Alder [00:29:55]:
Fantastic training, Roberto. Thank you very much for another brilliant conversation. And I’ll just ask you to turn your mics and your cameras off just to say that I’m going to invite Peter back up to the to the Zoom stage to do his thing one last time. But please hang around after the intermission. We’ve got a a fantastic session on AI and the candidate experience coming up, so I will speak to you soon. My thanks to Trent and Roberto. You can subscribe to this podcast in Apple Podcasts on Spotify or via your podcasting app of choice. Please also follow the show on Instagram. You can find us by searching for Recruiting Future. You can search all the past episodes@recruitingfuture.com on that site. You can also subscribe to the mailing list to get the inside track about everything that’s coming up on the show. Thanks very much for listening. I’ll be back next time and I hope you’ll join me.
