Candidate Experience has been a regular topic on this podcast as long as this podcast has existed. People often get frustrated that we keep having to talk about it as poor candidate experiences still persist for many. However, improving the candidate experience isn’t a single time-limited problem; it is an ongoing process that evolves in line with expectations and technology. With that in mind, talent acquisition teams must treat candidate experience strategically as a science rather than as a one-off project.
My guest this week is Kevin Grossman, President of The Talent Board, the organisers of the Candidate Experience Awards. The Candidate Experience Awards have been running for ten years now, and Kevin has a massive amount of valuable data-based insights to share on how the candidate experience challenge has been evolving.
In the interview, we discuss:
▪ The methodology and data behind The Candidate Experience Awards
▪ Candidate Experience as an ongoing challenge, not a single problem
▪ Transparency and feedback
▪ The challenge of sustaining a high-quality experience
▪ How the pandemic has increased transparency
▪ The rise of recruiting automation and how it is improving the candidate experience
▪ Taking a more scientific approach
▪ How chatbots are filling the communication gap
▪ Technology doesn’t fix flawed processes.
▪ What might the future look like
Listen to this podcast on Apple Podcasts.
Transcription:
Matt Alder [00:00:00]:
Support for this podcast is provided by SHL. From talent acquisition through to talent management, SHL’s science and technology maximize the potential of your greatest asset your people. SHL help you create the diverse, agile and innovative workforce you need to succeed in an unpredictable environment. Their data driven people insights, unmatched portfolio of products, engaging experiences built on science and global expert services are all delivered on one platform for all your people. Answers Visit shl.com to learn more about how SHL can unlock the potential of your workforce.
Matt Alder [00:01:06]:
This is Matt Alder. Welcome to episode 340 of the Recruiting Future podcast. Candidate Experience has been a regular topic on this podcast as long as this podcast has existed. People often get frustrated that we keep having to talk about it as poor candidate experiences still persist. For many however, improving the Candidate Experience isn’t a single time limited problem. It’s an ongoing process that evolves in line with expectations and technology. With that in mind, Talent Acquisition teams must treat Candidate Experience strategically as a science rather than as a one off project. My guest this week is Kevin Grossman, President of The Talent Board, the organisers of the Candidate Experience Awards. The Candidate Experience Awards have been running for 10 years now and Kevin has a massive amount of valuable data based insights to share on how the Candidate Experience Challenge has been evolving. Hi Kevin and welcome to the podcast.
Kevin Grossman [00:02:16]:
Matt, thank you so much for having me. I’m super excited because you have got an amazing podcast, Top of the Pops. Isn’t that what they say in the uk? Top of the Pops? Is that still a thing?
Matt Alder [00:02:27]:
Yeah, it’s kind of not been on for about 20 years, but I’ll take the compliment. That’s absolutely great.
Kevin Grossman [00:02:34]:
Dang it.
Matt Alder [00:02:35]:
Well, a pleasure to have you on the show. For people who may not know who you are, could you just introduce yourself and tell us what you do?
Kevin Grossman [00:02:42]:
Sure, absolutely. So Kevin Grossman, Currently I run what is known as Talent Board and the Candidate Experience Awards and we’ve been doing this now for over 10 years where every year we work with hundreds of employers big and small across industries from around the world. The lion’s share being North America, but we still have good data from emea, APAC and Latin America now for the first time in the past two years. And anyway we basically help them understand how their recruiting and hiring impacts their Candidate experience and in turn how that impacts their business and their brand by getting anonymous feedback from different segments and populations of their candidates.
Matt Alder [00:03:21]:
Fantastic stuff. And I want to ask you a huge amount of stuff about the candidate experience. But I suppose before we do it probably is worth going into the methodology that your data comes from just in a bit of detail so people get a sense sense of where the insights are coming and, and how the candidate experience awards work.
Kevin Grossman [00:03:39]:
Sure, sure. So every year, so Company X for example, they, they register to participate. The first thing they do is that they take an employer survey meaning whoever on the TA recruiting team completes it. They answer questions from of what they’re doing in recruiting and hiring from pre application all the way to onboarding. We don’t go beyond that from a retention perspective, just the early, early gate days I guess of retention. But they answer questions about how they deliver that recruiting, how they would also self assess their own candidate experience. And that’s about, it’s 60 plus questions that they answer in our survey and then once they, they completed that then we kind of walk them through the next steps of they targeting a specific population of candidates. Usually for companies that participate for the first time and even those that come back and participate, it’s kind of a cross job type. So from hour to professional to management of candidates. And part of our criteria is that the candidates have to be 80% or more of them have to be those who weren’t hired and 20% or less can be those who actually did get hired. Because we’re trying to help companies understand there’s a greater aggregate impact over time by the sheer volume of people that they’re saying no to. I’m sure you’ve heard this before Matt. We’re in the business of no in recruiting and we say no a lot more so. And for example, last year out of all the, the global segments that we did the research on, over 90%, actually just over 90% were not hired in the, in the feedback. So once they target who they want to solicit, again it’s anonymous, confidential feedback from then we distribute the survey link. They distribute that actually through their current existing systems. We capture the data for them and it’s about, it seems like it’s a lot of questions when I say the number because it’s over 60 as well. But the candidates don’t answer all of them. There’s logic in the survey. They only answer the first 10 questions and then they answer as far as they got in the, in the recruiting process which we know by the running the numbers. That’s mostly only to application, right? Only a small portion, a small tier are going to get screened, interviewed, assessed, made offers to and hired and, and those are the folks that will answer more of the questions. But it’s still 5ish minutes max for most, for most candidates. And so once they finish answering that information then we are compile that we serve it back up to all the employers. They get access to not only their data but the aggregate data in each of their regions. How they can and then they have filtering tools. We use the platform surveil who is our technology partner and they get to filter their data. We do reviews with them, overviews with them, give them our insights and takeaways and then they can filter till their heart’s content comparing and contrasting against industry size a myriad of different questions. But again it’s all anonymous feedback. And then there’s also the last thing I’ll mention is that there’s anonymous comments too. So it’s not just answers to the questions that we ask but also open ended questions. Is there anything you like to tell us at this point in the survey? And that sentiment is also very valuable for companies to get. I mean you know we, as you can imagine you get a lot of hate mail but that’s everybody’s pretty normal for TA leaders and their teams. But you get a lot of insights too as to I’m bummed I didn’t get the job but you told me what was going to happen next. Yeah, those kind of fantastic stuff.
Matt Alder [00:07:24]:
And I know that you’ve got your kind of latest set of results and insights and I’m sort of very keen to dive into those and find out a bit more. But before we do, I think that what’s really interesting to me is that this isn’t a kind of a yearly survey. This is a 10 year, this is a 10 year project and you must have so much interesting data across the, across the decade. Candidate experience is a, is something that we have been talking about for, for more than 10 years. I mean how’s it changing? Is it improving or are we still where we were 10 years ago?
Kevin Grossman [00:07:58]:
So let me back into that, into a conversation that incurred on LinkedIn just recently. So we are, we’re sharing, we’ve been sharing our insights and our research reports and I’ve been an article series focusing in on the top 10 takeaways from the data etc. And one of the ones that we just released was Takeaway 5 in our research which was really all about, you know, letting the candidates know where they stand in the recruiting process. And that’s been a conversation We’ve had a long time in recruiting and hiring and, and, and what was interesting is that there were some commentary from folks that you know, they, from their perspective, nothing’s changed at all. That it’s still, it’s still a dismal process for candidates and companies don’t do a very good job and, and continue not to do a very good job. And, and so there was this just interesting, you know, points that were being made and I’m always the kind of the, the glass half full kind of guy and I can tell you in the 10 years that we’ve been doing this the most consistent thing that we see every single year are those companies who have the highest positive candidate ratings. The ones that I E Win our awards, the candies as we call them for short. They are communicating more often more consistently from first touch point to last touch point. And that’s going to be a lot of automation. There’s going to be human interaction and they’re consistent and they’re concise and it’s timely as well for folks that you’re not going, you’re not going to hire. You don’t hold on to them until you close the wreck their disposition with if not three to five days, one to two weeks max. But communication is, is a big overall trend that we see that’s can that is consistent every year asking candidates for feedback and not only asking for feedback but providing feedback which is not going to be in everybody’s wheelhouse. But I can tell you the top 10 winners and, and, and most of the, the top few winners in the smaller regions that we did so the top 10 in North America, they all provide feedback to finalists. To finalists. We’re not talking about those who apply and and are not qualified but those who actually make it to finalists. So providing feedback as to why you’re not going to pursue them. Expectation setting throughout the process. What’s going to happen next? Transparency and feedback which I can talk more about of what we also saw last year and the kind of the bigger picture too that was different than we’ve ever seen before. And then the, the last thing is that it’s not, it’s not about happy, right? It’s nice to aspire to having happy candidates but they’re only going to be happy only if they get hired. There is no happy otherwise. So the, the, the what we find every year that’s also a continuous trend for companies that are pulling all the right levers and they’re not ever and no company does it right all the time. That’s just, that’s impossible. They are, it’s the perception of fairness is there. I feel like it was fair because you told me what was going to happen. You told, you gave me some feedback. Maybe if I’m a finalist you were clear and definitive and you didn’t keep me hanging. All those things that I’m saying that those are things have been consistent year after year. The hard part, and I think this is where you were going with part of your question too is companies sustaining that over time. Which is the hardest thing that we see and we’ve seen now that we’ve done this for over 10 years. And what I mean by that is this company X maybe participates in our research so does their own feedback survey which many companies do or both, whatever and they identify 1, 2, 3, 3 things that they know. Maybe it’s low hanging fruit that I can improve upon. It’s always and it always connects back again to communication. Expect all the things I just outlined. They make those improvements, they see a bump in positive ratings the next year and again that’s great in and of itself. But all those things also more positive ratings means that those candidates are more willing to do stuff again apply again in the future, refer others even being rejected and referring and buying stuff if it’s a consumer based business not going to be the case for B2B but for consumer based businesses that’s the case. So if they but sustaining that over time. We’ve we worked with over a thousand companies. I’ll just run some numbers for you Matt. We worked with over a thousand companies that have participated in the research over the past 10 years. 354 so maybe a third ish have won at least one candy award. Now that’s great because we’re all about celebrating companies that are ab the average above our benchmarks every year. That’s how we part of how we do it. Only five have won eight out of the past 10 years and four of those five are large, more complex, even global enterprises. One was more of a regional company in the US but I mean my point being is that it is not easy to sustain because of things like who plans for a pandemic, who economic fluctuations, changes on the leadership team, changes on the recruiting team, M and A activity, new products and services that are being launched quickly dialing up hiring, scaling it back depending on what’s going on. All these things impact the business of recruiting and hiring and impact obviously the candidate experience. So I hope that paints the picture that we see is that we know what Works every year. It is hard to sustain.
Matt Alder [00:13:41]:
Yeah, I think that does. And I think it’s really clear that this is an ongoing process. It’s not a single problem that needs to be solved and we can all move on. It’s something that people need to be paying attention to all the time. And I suppose let’s come to the latest set of results because the last 12 months has been 12 months like no other with the pandemic and everything that’s been happening. What have you seen, what insights have come back?
Kevin Grossman [00:14:05]:
So what’s interesting is for us is that for all the years that we’ve been doing this, there is. We had seen through 2019, well through 2018, actually, a gradual increase or improvement, meaning in some of the ratings that we asked for, we saw that trend line was actually going up in each of the regions that we do this. Latin America is too new to truly have trends yet in our tracking, but the emea, APAC as well as North America were trending upwards. We saw this dip in 2019, which was interesting because keep this in mind. Pre Covid, we were in nothing, as you know, nothing but a growth market even, I mean, and lowest unemployment in decades in the States and I would argue a lot of industrialized places all over the world in countries, et cetera. And yet what we also call candidate resentment, the other side of the, the positive great experiences, I don’t ever want to do anything with you again experience. And that’s what we also call the resentment rate that was increasing everywhere through 2019 in that different world. Like back in the old days when we used to see each other at conferences and you know, I mean, being serious though, that it was like. And then suddenly in 2020, before we even closed the survey, we knew things were going to be different. The great experience dramatically went up 25 to 45% respectively, across North America to EMEA, to APAC. And we were like, whoa, what, you know what’s going on, right? Because this is like a world where people are losing their jobs. And so what we found is that companies were put into this forced level of transparency like they had never been in, in such a short period of time. So what do we tell our candidates who are waiting for their interviews and that we cannot do now because now we have to virtualize everything. What about the new hires that we’re waiting to start? They can’t. We can’t do that now because now we got to figure out the remote work environment and only for those who could do remote. Right. We talk about That a lot. But there’s a whole bunch of folks who still have to work in stores, in plants, in, on site, in person. And how do we figure all that out at the same time? So employers were like, this is what’s happening, folks. You saw the, you saw it on their career sites. We’re hiring, we’re not hiring during this. We’re trying to figure this out in the pandemic, how they talk to their own employees. And candidates were more forgiving, obviously, because it, we went from, we went from a candidate market pre Covid to not really quite an employer market because it’s not the same thing as coming out of the Great Recession. Right. This is kind of like a mixed bag because there’s been industries that have fared okay, finance and insurance, technology, some services sectors, even some consumer goods and retail, while others have been completely decimated. But my point is, is that that was something we were not expecting to see. This general increase in positive sentiment and a quite a dramatic reduction in what we called again, the resentment rate. And I think because of those things that we outlined is the big part of that reason.
Matt Alder [00:17:27]:
I mean, that’s fascinating stuff. So it’s, it’s almost like employers had to talk more about their, their process and what was going on and, and keeping people informed because everything had changed. But actually candidates were getting more communication than they, than they’d had in the past.
Kevin Grossman [00:17:40]:
They. Yeah, more consistently I, the, the, the what’s going to be interesting to see of what happens this year in our research and if that continues or not as we begin to open up more and the global community gets more vaccinated and we’ll see what happens with that. I hope it’s more consistent. But that’s part of the argument with some of the people in the LinkedIn feed the other day was it’s just going to go back to zero again.
Matt Alder [00:18:07]:
Yeah, interesting, interesting. I mean, give us a couple more sort of real sort of standout takeaways from what you’ve seen.
Kevin Grossman [00:18:15]:
So it shouldn’t, this shouldn’t come as a surprise, but I think, you know, technology in recruiting is not new. Right. I mean for, we’ve had ATS’s for over two decades now. There’s been a lot of technologies in between. But one of the, another one of the things that we saw happening more last year was, and it’s been, it’s been happening over the past few years that there’s been more of an investment in recruiting technology. Not just in the front end of the process either for you Know, attracting and sourcing candidates and marketing to them, but also scheduling interviews now and, and not, and maybe more for high volume hiring. But that’s kind of bleeding over into a lot of things. So the reality for any given company is that the majority of people that apply for any of my jobs are going to research whether that’s for five minutes or five hours, whatever that is, and they apply and that’s the end of the road. And, and that will only be 99.8% automation today for most companies of any hiring volume and scale. And it’s only those that make it beyond that, that actually get screened, et cetera, that are going to have more human interaction. So what happened, what we saw last year and we heard from the community part of it in the employer side of the data as well as what we heard. Anecdotally they were leaning hard on technologies and because they’re, they’re all, they’re. They have suddenly had leaner teams too unfortunately. Right. There’s some really good HR recruiting folks that have been out of work or did lose their jobs, at least from at different points of the, of the year last year during the, the lockdown. So leaning on technology was a much more of an, of a focal point than ever before. And the fact is, as I know, you know, the level of machine learning and natural language processing and what we’re calling AI, even though it’s not really AI, but just the strength of those smart technologies today, really helping companies scale more quickly. And, and you know, it’s, you also are. Companies are in control of what those automated messages say. Right. You don’t have to, you can go beyond the templ, can make them more personable, more concise. So I think making that more doing a communications audit and feedback was top of mind for a lot of companies last year because a lot of them had time if they weren’t hiring for a while, if they had, if they were putting freezes in place. So there was a lot of, I think rethinking and resetting. But then how do we leverage these technologies, all the systems that we have in place, which are going to be multiple in a going forward into 2021 and beyond. That’s another big thing that we saw last year.
Matt Alder [00:21:12]:
Absolutely. And I think that that is really interesting and it kind of reflects a lot of conversations that I’ve been having that you know, the, the automation technologies are improving in terms of the quality of communication that they can give. So the companies that are really doing it well are actually using it to improve their candidate experience. Whereas in the past it would have been thought that automation is something that damages the candidate experience because it’s stopping humans talking to candidates in the process. But that’ case is it?
Kevin Grossman [00:21:40]:
No, it’s not the case. And I, I think that you know, in all defense of any employer from whether, I mean especially those again with some hiring volume, I mean, you know, it’s, it’s a, it is a different world for some really small main street businesses and, and startups where maybe they’re hiring a few people throughout the year and they have their own issues that they need to deal with. But there’s probably going to be much more human interaction there. Companies that have any, any, again any scale, it’s, and the volume that’s increased. I mean there are people again unfortunately, you know, millions of people still out of work that are applying for jobs they never would have applied for before in industries they probably never looked at before. And so, and you know, that’s a lot more unqualified people for companies to have to automatically screen through because they’re not. Humans aren’t doing that anymore. I mean again if they’re you, if you have 10 resumes, you sit down and review them. But not if you have 1000 for one job in one month. That’s not going to happen. So you’re going to lean on that technology and it has to happen. I mean it’s an, it’s, it is an uphill battle. And so companies, I think another part of the conversation too, that, that wasn’t so much out of our research, but it still relates to what we find. It’s in the research side of the, of, of our work is that you know, you want to make it easier for potential candidates and internal, understand your company, the, the, the opportunities that are available to them and to find that information readily. But you also want to, and you know, as a conversation I had with Lars Schmidt lately and recently and some other folks about you want to repel people too. You do. You don’t want everybody, I mean you’re going to have serial appliers that are going to apply for 75 jobs that they’re never going to be qualified for. That happens all the time. But you want others to self select, right? You want those individuals to say, you know what? This isn’t the, the right position for me based on what I’m reading, seeing, watching on the career site, wherever that information is and what medium it’s in, I’m gonna pass on it. And companies need they, that’s Another part of the conversations how do we get better with that so that we don’t have a thousand unqualified people applying for this one job via our career site.
Matt Alder [00:24:09]:
And I suppose going deeper into the candidate process into the sort of the interview and the assessment process. Obviously there’s been some fundamental changes there in the last 12 months with video interviewing and more sort of technology being used in assessments by necessity. What sort of insights and feedback have you seen about that?
Kevin Grossman [00:24:30]:
Well obviously the, the utilization of video interviewing has jumped dramatically. I mean everybody we had to do it. There’s you had to go not only for interviewing but for onboarding as well. Even when some of that was happening already anyway pre Covid the one thing that that is that’s different that companies have had to re kind of rethink and I think for there’s many that are I think are doing a pretty good job of it too in our that we see at least in our candy community is is that how you prep somebody for that virtualized interview is different than if they were coming in person? And the any and companies that were already leaning in and prepping candidates before their interview anyway, we’re already scoring positive sentiment points because that is as much anytime there’s engagement that in that capacity it always drives positive sentiment and a higher perception of fairness. So if they’re prepping them for the video interviewing with a video maybe that walks them through the process. This is what we want you to prepare for and like you know, and tips as well, right? Tips about you know, when you’re on the screen and like if you and I were doing a video chat right now Matt, we’d be looking at the camera but not at each other, right. If I look at you, I look down and it’s hard because you don’t have that in. You don’t have that eye contact that you would have with an in person interview. So helping candidates to be more comfortable in that realm and prepping them. Prepping always drives more sentiment and then not only that part but what then? Again this goes back to expectation settings. When you’re done with that video interview, what then? What does the candidate get told next? What’s going to happen next? And if you tell me that these are the next steps and then I’m going to follow up with you on X and you do it. We and in our, in our research the great overall experience gets goes up over 50% for whether it comes from the recruiters or the hiring managers which always play a role especially at this point. So the that’s another thing that we, we did see was flipping to the virtual environment but ensuring that candidates were ready, were prepped and understood what it was they were about to embark on. And if you were tagging any kind of an assessment either pre interview or during or post test or an assessment making sure that there’s explanatory text and information around what it is you’re doing and taking and why that’s big.
Matt Alder [00:27:13]:
Absolutely. And with this acceleration of technology we’re now seeing are you seeing any employers sort of be more sophisticated in their approach to candidate experience in terms of looking at the data, changing their processes, optimizing things, doing things kind of more in real time almost sort of treating candidate experience as a, as a science. Is that something that we’re starting to see now?
Kevin Grossman [00:27:40]:
I think we’re seeing. We are seeing more of it, yes. Because the technologies do allow for more consistent I mean, I mean just think about a chatbot chatbot. I mean chatbots aren’t new to 2020 of course they’ve already been being used in consumer markets for even longer than the past few years and they’ve gotten better and smarter and more accurate with their answers. And when you have one now on career sites where before there was no communication maybe you had just flat text on the site FAQ that that you know can be painful to navigate in the first place. If now I can actually ask something it’s not a human most people know that about general inquiries and questions that get can be answered 247 that’s a big win and we see it actually in the data. In fact the the overall can positive experience goes up another 25 to 30%. I mean and again not just because of that one thing but when what we find I think I want to be clear about this Matt. They’re not all these aren’t straight correlations but if I’m doing that I’m probably doing I’m doing these other things too right that that are better communication touch points that are then going to drive positive sentiment and willingness to do stuff again higher. But chatbots were filling a gap where there was no communication before and not only now not only just on the career side but also on the answering questions during the application process and even now scheduling the interview you for maybe repetitive hires but scheduling it that that is there is more of a science there and companies understanding that that interaction does make a difference because I always come back again to the business impact on business and brand and even if I don’t even if you’re not a consumer based business. If I’m an engineer, this is one of the examples I always like to use. If I’m an engineer and I, I, I apply at Lockheed Martin and I, I’ll pick on them because they’re one of the longtime candy winners, the one of the five that I referenced earlier. They, and I have a cor. Say I have a horrible experience. I’m not going to not buy military equipment because I didn’t get the job. Right. I, I mean but I am if I’m, I got three engineering friends over here, I’m going to tell those three don’t ever apply at Lockheed. And maybe one out of the three says, you know what, I’m going to take your word for it. I’m going to pass. That’s harder to quantify. But that’s an impact though. That can, that will, that ripples out every single day and to from with employers big and small across industries around the world. That’s the stuff that we’re talking about. So there is, there is this, the technology has been able to and the reporting side of that too and the data that we get back understanding where there are weaknesses in the process and, and you know, that’s why we would argue whether you participate in the, in the candies or not, which we would hope that you do. But just asking for feedback period is going to give you invaluable information. That’s why you ask your customers for feedback. You’re paying customers at the end of the day and why you get feedback from even if you’re a B2B organization that it’s important to get that data, that feedback. These things are working and, and to walk through your own process. That’s another thing you probably have heard multiple times. Apply for your own jobs, walk in the candidate shoes, all of those that those things all mean just understand what it is you’re putting people through. If there’s a technical issue because of a new system that you’ve implemented or one you’ve had for, for years, you need to know that and fix that because you could be losing people. And that I’m probably getting in the form of email complaints anyway. So you need to be able to, you know, again, I know Jerry Crispin’s voice echoes in my head a lot for the lot of things being a longtime mentor and one of the co founders of Talent Board too. But you know, technology doesn’t fix crappy processes. It never will. And so you’ve got, it’s even what are we trying to do and to accomplish in our recruiting and hiring practice before we even implement that chatbot on the site, before we implement this new CRM, this new ats, this new virtual sourcing tool, whatever it is, those are it’s bigger questions first. And then technology can actually help quite dramatically.
Matt Alder [00:32:21]:
So final yet probably impossible question to answer. What’s going to happen next? What’s your kind of best guess about what things might look like in, in 12 months time? I know, I know that’s such a difficult question to answer, but I’m just interested in terms of the trends that you’ve been seeing.
Kevin Grossman [00:32:40]:
By no means am I anything close to being a soothsayer, but because I remember, you know, a year ago now, well, even before, in February, looking forward to a banner year. And then all of a sudden the last flight I took was March 6th. So. But I digress that to answer your question, I think what we’re going to find is more leaning on recruiting technologies. As companies begin to scale again and industries that have been decimated maybe heal a little bit and start hiring again, or companies that did okay, thrive even further, they’ll lean on recruiting technologies a lot more. The recruiting teams probably will be leaner and but those who understand and get why it’s important to sustain consistent communication strategy with any and all candidates, external as well as internal, they will invest more of that human interaction there and to be consistent and timely. We’ll see that, but we’re going to see, we’ll see some companies fall back again into old habits. And again I go back to the point of where, you know, when there’s a change on the leadership team, when there’s M and a N activity and there’s other things that impact the business that will ultimately impact recruiting and hiring. And I, I only hope, because I do think that we have seen improvements over the 10 years that we’ve been doing this. But like I told you at the beginning of the podcast, the, the hardest thing is the company sustaining. And I hope that that incrementally we’ll see a little bit, you know, even another percentage point or two of companies actually sustaining it. I hope that’s the case because I think that there are a lot of organizations that in the past year have rethought everything the way that they communicate with candidates and employees alike. And I hope that they continue at that level of transparency and in the end will help them, you know, recruit and hire the people that they want to work for them. So, but I think we’re going to see some sustaining. But we’re going to see companies fall back into old habits. Yes.
Matt Alder [00:34:58]:
So where can people find out more about the candidate experience?
Kevin Grossman [00:35:02]:
Awards go to the talent board.org simply you’ve got it. You don’t just do Talent board. It’s the talent board.org and everything that I’ve been sharing our research, articles, events, activities, everything’s listed on the site and all of our research is free to download. And that’s where you go the talent.
Matt Alder [00:35:22]:
Board.Org Kevin, thank you very much for talking to me.
Kevin Grossman [00:35:25]:
Thanks again. I appreciate you having me on.
Matt Alder [00:35:27]:
My thanks to Kevin Grossman. You can subscribe to this podcast in Apple Podcasts, on Spotify or via your podcasting app of choice. Please also follow the show on Instagram. You can find us by searching for Recruiting Future. You can search all the past episodes@recruitingfuture.com on that site. You can also subscribe to the mailing list to get the inside track about everything that’s coming up on the show. Thanks very much for listening. I’ll be back next time and I hope you’ll join me.
