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	<title>Comments on: Charging Candidates &#8211; taking advantage or adding value?</title>
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		<title>By: Sally</title>
		<link>http://recruitingfuture.com/2009/05/17/charging-candidates-taking-advantage-or-adding-value/#comment-553</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sally]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Apr 2010 14:31:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://recruitingfuture.com/?p=142#comment-553</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I was interested to see &#039;The ladders&#039; website and surprised that they are able to get around the law by charging potential candidates - particularly with no real evidence of jobs unless you pay in advance.  I have had my own recruitment company for years and would not have dared to take money from anyone other than a client.

It is annoying though how anyone walking into your agency or sending a CV to you expects first class service at no charge to them at all- and even berates you for being a bit short when necessary.  Even 15 minutes of  advice - which is how long it takes  to speak to anyone costs the agency money in time, yet it is all take for granted as though the government is paying for the service.  It is a difficult problem but if &#039;The ladders&#039; can get away with it perhaps it is time to change our attitude and use that loophole.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was interested to see &#8216;The ladders&#8217; website and surprised that they are able to get around the law by charging potential candidates &#8211; particularly with no real evidence of jobs unless you pay in advance.  I have had my own recruitment company for years and would not have dared to take money from anyone other than a client.</p>
<p>It is annoying though how anyone walking into your agency or sending a CV to you expects first class service at no charge to them at all- and even berates you for being a bit short when necessary.  Even 15 minutes of  advice &#8211; which is how long it takes  to speak to anyone costs the agency money in time, yet it is all take for granted as though the government is paying for the service.  It is a difficult problem but if &#8216;The ladders&#8217; can get away with it perhaps it is time to change our attitude and use that loophole.</p>
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		<title>By: workthing.com Relaunches, Sparking Debate &#124; Jobs Portal Watch</title>
		<link>http://recruitingfuture.com/2009/05/17/charging-candidates-taking-advantage-or-adding-value/#comment-153</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[workthing.com Relaunches, Sparking Debate &#124; Jobs Portal Watch]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 02:27:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://recruitingfuture.com/?p=142#comment-153</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] website’s model of charging users for access has sparked debate, for example on this recruitingfuture.com blog [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] website’s model of charging users for access has sparked debate, for example on this recruitingfuture.com blog [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Gareth Lloyd</title>
		<link>http://recruitingfuture.com/2009/05/17/charging-candidates-taking-advantage-or-adding-value/#comment-149</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gareth Lloyd]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 12:55:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://recruitingfuture.com/?p=142#comment-149</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Correct link here http://blog.workthing.com/2009/06/the-workthing-promise.html]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Correct link here <a href="http://blog.workthing.com/2009/06/the-workthing-promise.html" rel="nofollow">http://blog.workthing.com/2009/06/the-workthing-promise.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Gareth Lloyd</title>
		<link>http://recruitingfuture.com/2009/05/17/charging-candidates-taking-advantage-or-adding-value/#comment-148</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gareth Lloyd]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 09:40:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://recruitingfuture.com/?p=142#comment-148</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Given the interesting discussion above about pricing, I thought I&#039;d let everyone know about the Workthing+ Promise which has been announced today: &quot;Back into work within 6 months, or your money back&quot; - http://tinyurl.com/lp4fw5.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Given the interesting discussion above about pricing, I thought I&#8217;d let everyone know about the Workthing+ Promise which has been announced today: &#8220;Back into work within 6 months, or your money back&#8221; &#8211; <a href="http://tinyurl.com/lp4fw5" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/lp4fw5</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://recruitingfuture.com/2009/05/17/charging-candidates-taking-advantage-or-adding-value/#comment-133</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Paul]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 17:09:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://recruitingfuture.com/?p=142#comment-133</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Whilst at Zookel (http://zookel.com) we offer a lot of comparable features (e.g. psychometrics) &amp; some more advanced (video CV’s, &amp; the leveraging candidates social networks for example) for free, I can understand the rationale / see some of the sense in the approach that workthing+ is taking. 

As a competitor it would be wrong of me to comment on pricing directly, but in terms of strategy allowing candidates to stand out differentially, network more effectively, and be better prepared for potential interviews (and indeed their job hunt) is definitely an important part of the future online recruitment landscape (granted I have to say that as it’s also the reason Zookel exists). 

Controversy (and competition) aside – I must admit I’m also glad to see another site pushing the boundaries of the online recruitment market.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whilst at Zookel (<a href="http://zookel.com" rel="nofollow">http://zookel.com</a>) we offer a lot of comparable features (e.g. psychometrics) &amp; some more advanced (video CV’s, &amp; the leveraging candidates social networks for example) for free, I can understand the rationale / see some of the sense in the approach that workthing+ is taking. </p>
<p>As a competitor it would be wrong of me to comment on pricing directly, but in terms of strategy allowing candidates to stand out differentially, network more effectively, and be better prepared for potential interviews (and indeed their job hunt) is definitely an important part of the future online recruitment landscape (granted I have to say that as it’s also the reason Zookel exists). </p>
<p>Controversy (and competition) aside – I must admit I’m also glad to see another site pushing the boundaries of the online recruitment market.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Alberg</title>
		<link>http://recruitingfuture.com/2009/05/17/charging-candidates-taking-advantage-or-adding-value/#comment-129</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard Alberg]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 May 2009 15:17:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://recruitingfuture.com/?p=142#comment-129</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[He who pays the piper calls the tune.  Job boards and recruitment agents are paid for by the employer and therefore must ensure that their service at the very minimum keeps this &#039;stakeholder&#039; happy.  That their offering also works for the applicant renders the proposition effective.  An employer is looking for a list of qualified applicants from whom they can choose and has no particular incentive to fund assistance for those they will not be hiring.  The service provider is a commercial entity and therefore will not fund an offering from their margin unless it can be shown that doing so brings tangible benefit to their business.  It may be that the PR benefits of such a service or the long-term relationship with candidates warrants the cost however so far no major player has come forward with the cash.

Of course this leaves job seekers in a very difficult position.  The buoyant jobs market over the past decade has meant that many people, who although they may be very good at their jobs, are not very good at job-seeking as they have not needed to acquire this knowledge and skill.  In these very tough times they now require extra assistance in order to stand a reasonable chance of securing a new role.  As taxpayers we all pay for this assistance via Jobcentre Plus.  Unfortunately at present they do not provide a very good service for the mid-tier or senior level unemployed.  The very senior executive has for some while been comfortable paying for out placement and career management, receiving this either as a perk or through self-funding.  The mid-tier has the need but at present must self-fund and some will regard it as a pragmatic investment.  Technology makes this far more affordable than was hitherto the case and Workthing should be congratulated for recognising the market situation and providing an offering.

I must lay my cards on the table as I will soon be launching a competitive offering.  At this point I do not know how many customers we will secure or at what price-point.  However I have no ethical qualms charging the job-seeker.  In fact as someone who has been in this sector for over twenty years I feel great about my involvement.  We will only win business and stave off the bad headlines if we provide a decent offering at competitive prices and my colleagues and I are determined to excel at this.  We will be helping job seekers learn what they need to do and providing the tools and support to equip them in doing this.  Earning a living whilst helping people get back into employment is something I will be very proud of.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He who pays the piper calls the tune.  Job boards and recruitment agents are paid for by the employer and therefore must ensure that their service at the very minimum keeps this &#8216;stakeholder&#8217; happy.  That their offering also works for the applicant renders the proposition effective.  An employer is looking for a list of qualified applicants from whom they can choose and has no particular incentive to fund assistance for those they will not be hiring.  The service provider is a commercial entity and therefore will not fund an offering from their margin unless it can be shown that doing so brings tangible benefit to their business.  It may be that the PR benefits of such a service or the long-term relationship with candidates warrants the cost however so far no major player has come forward with the cash.</p>
<p>Of course this leaves job seekers in a very difficult position.  The buoyant jobs market over the past decade has meant that many people, who although they may be very good at their jobs, are not very good at job-seeking as they have not needed to acquire this knowledge and skill.  In these very tough times they now require extra assistance in order to stand a reasonable chance of securing a new role.  As taxpayers we all pay for this assistance via Jobcentre Plus.  Unfortunately at present they do not provide a very good service for the mid-tier or senior level unemployed.  The very senior executive has for some while been comfortable paying for out placement and career management, receiving this either as a perk or through self-funding.  The mid-tier has the need but at present must self-fund and some will regard it as a pragmatic investment.  Technology makes this far more affordable than was hitherto the case and Workthing should be congratulated for recognising the market situation and providing an offering.</p>
<p>I must lay my cards on the table as I will soon be launching a competitive offering.  At this point I do not know how many customers we will secure or at what price-point.  However I have no ethical qualms charging the job-seeker.  In fact as someone who has been in this sector for over twenty years I feel great about my involvement.  We will only win business and stave off the bad headlines if we provide a decent offering at competitive prices and my colleagues and I are determined to excel at this.  We will be helping job seekers learn what they need to do and providing the tools and support to equip them in doing this.  Earning a living whilst helping people get back into employment is something I will be very proud of.</p>
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		<title>By: Gareth Lloyd</title>
		<link>http://recruitingfuture.com/2009/05/17/charging-candidates-taking-advantage-or-adding-value/#comment-122</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gareth Lloyd]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 May 2009 08:16:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://recruitingfuture.com/?p=142#comment-122</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Great to see this debate continuing to develop. I’d like to respond on behalf of Workthing+ to some of the really interesting comments on pricing.  

Is it fair to charge for any career management service?   Jamie’s observation that mechanics don’t fix your car for free is to the point. Traditional outplacement consultants can charge thousands of pounds for support; CV writing services can cost hundreds of pounds; career advice books sell by the thousand – all charging candidates to help them manage their career.  Workthing+ is doing the same; the fact that the services are delivered online rather than in a book or face-to-face obviously doesn’t make them less valuable or mean they should be given away for free.   

How much should we charge for Workthing+? Firstly, we’re very conscious of both quality and value-for-money: Workthing+ contains premium, high quality tools (such as the full psychometric tests that Matt refers to above) that are sold elsewhere for more than our headline pricing. Secondly, as you’d expect, in this phase of our launch, we’re assessing how many subscribers we get at different price points/models, so we can pitch our pricing to be accessible and affordable for as many people as possible.  

I agree with Derek’s well-made point about candidates having a choice as to whether or not to subscribe, and making that choice through educated insight rather than desperation.   We want Workthing+ to improve the jobsearch experience for candidates – to help them be better-prepared, more structured and to find the right job for them.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great to see this debate continuing to develop. I’d like to respond on behalf of Workthing+ to some of the really interesting comments on pricing.  </p>
<p>Is it fair to charge for any career management service?   Jamie’s observation that mechanics don’t fix your car for free is to the point. Traditional outplacement consultants can charge thousands of pounds for support; CV writing services can cost hundreds of pounds; career advice books sell by the thousand – all charging candidates to help them manage their career.  Workthing+ is doing the same; the fact that the services are delivered online rather than in a book or face-to-face obviously doesn’t make them less valuable or mean they should be given away for free.   </p>
<p>How much should we charge for Workthing+? Firstly, we’re very conscious of both quality and value-for-money: Workthing+ contains premium, high quality tools (such as the full psychometric tests that Matt refers to above) that are sold elsewhere for more than our headline pricing. Secondly, as you’d expect, in this phase of our launch, we’re assessing how many subscribers we get at different price points/models, so we can pitch our pricing to be accessible and affordable for as many people as possible.  </p>
<p>I agree with Derek’s well-made point about candidates having a choice as to whether or not to subscribe, and making that choice through educated insight rather than desperation.   We want Workthing+ to improve the jobsearch experience for candidates – to help them be better-prepared, more structured and to find the right job for them.</p>
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		<title>By: It&#8217;s all About the Service, Stupid &#171; JoBoOw.com</title>
		<link>http://recruitingfuture.com/2009/05/17/charging-candidates-taking-advantage-or-adding-value/#comment-120</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[It&#8217;s all About the Service, Stupid &#171; JoBoOw.com]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 May 2009 08:47:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://recruitingfuture.com/?p=142#comment-120</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] In the UK our efforts are moulded by a need to tread the fine line of compliance with BERR and the Recruitment Agencies Act, particularly to ensure there is no breach of the law in relation to a restriction of the ability to charge job seekers for finding them a job. As this extends to an inability to charge for inclusion in CV databases etc. the fine line that The Ladders and Workthing Plus are treading is well shown by the debate caused by the latter&#8217;s launch on Matt Alder&#8217;s Recruiting Futurology blog. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] In the UK our efforts are moulded by a need to tread the fine line of compliance with BERR and the Recruitment Agencies Act, particularly to ensure there is no breach of the law in relation to a restriction of the ability to charge job seekers for finding them a job. As this extends to an inability to charge for inclusion in CV databases etc. the fine line that The Ladders and Workthing Plus are treading is well shown by the debate caused by the latter&#8217;s launch on Matt Alder&#8217;s Recruiting Futurology blog. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: dom sumners</title>
		<link>http://recruitingfuture.com/2009/05/17/charging-candidates-taking-advantage-or-adding-value/#comment-119</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dom sumners]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 May 2009 20:12:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://recruitingfuture.com/?p=142#comment-119</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Real life example - my friend (an out of work exec not from our industry) emaiiled me today to ask me if it was worth buying subscription to Ladders - his quote was &quot;its very pricy and money is tight but i understand they have better jobs that are not advertised anywhere else&quot; - Now am i just being bit wet in feeling uncomfortable with this thought process going on with lots of desperate execs when in reality - i do not believe they have any &quot;exclusive&quot; opportunities or possibly info thats not freely available on web elsewhere. Let me be clear - not having a pop at Ladders (or Workthing+) have discussed in depth this product with some of our clients. I just dont really like it as a concept for candidates to pay.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Real life example &#8211; my friend (an out of work exec not from our industry) emaiiled me today to ask me if it was worth buying subscription to Ladders &#8211; his quote was &#8220;its very pricy and money is tight but i understand they have better jobs that are not advertised anywhere else&#8221; &#8211; Now am i just being bit wet in feeling uncomfortable with this thought process going on with lots of desperate execs when in reality &#8211; i do not believe they have any &#8220;exclusive&#8221; opportunities or possibly info thats not freely available on web elsewhere. Let me be clear &#8211; not having a pop at Ladders (or Workthing+) have discussed in depth this product with some of our clients. I just dont really like it as a concept for candidates to pay.</p>
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		<title>By: Johanna Courtney</title>
		<link>http://recruitingfuture.com/2009/05/17/charging-candidates-taking-advantage-or-adding-value/#comment-118</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Johanna Courtney]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 May 2009 09:27:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://recruitingfuture.com/?p=142#comment-118</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well, I am a job seeker, I too am having a go on the site, and I too have &quot;lots of time on my hands&quot; (and this is the catch - it&#039;s only worth your while if you have lots of time on your hands)l.

Yes, it has brilliant tools and content, yes I would like to use the site - but no - I will not pay for it, when I can get all the information on the web and to be honest with you - looking for a job isn&#039;t rocket science.  For the people that this site is aimed at (middle tier earners - quite intelligent people) - I&#039;m not sure they need all the advice that is on there (such as what clothes to wear to an interview - it&#039;s common sense is it not?)

I have been receiving emails from TMDR asking me if my career is worth 50p a day so I can see who they are targeting...

I think charging candidates and expecting people who may be out of work to have to pay £15 a month out what they are getting from the government (£64 a week) is cheeky.  £15 isn&#039;t a lot to someone who is in work, but trust me - when you have to count every penny when you&#039;re signing on - it&#039;s a lot of money that could be spent elsewhere (on food for example).  

However - in agreement with Alex - there is a need for service like this as Jobcentre plus is no place to get careers advice so something like this is needed, I&#039;m just not comfortable with the whole charging aspect....]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I am a job seeker, I too am having a go on the site, and I too have &#8220;lots of time on my hands&#8221; (and this is the catch &#8211; it&#8217;s only worth your while if you have lots of time on your hands)l.</p>
<p>Yes, it has brilliant tools and content, yes I would like to use the site &#8211; but no &#8211; I will not pay for it, when I can get all the information on the web and to be honest with you &#8211; looking for a job isn&#8217;t rocket science.  For the people that this site is aimed at (middle tier earners &#8211; quite intelligent people) &#8211; I&#8217;m not sure they need all the advice that is on there (such as what clothes to wear to an interview &#8211; it&#8217;s common sense is it not?)</p>
<p>I have been receiving emails from TMDR asking me if my career is worth 50p a day so I can see who they are targeting&#8230;</p>
<p>I think charging candidates and expecting people who may be out of work to have to pay £15 a month out what they are getting from the government (£64 a week) is cheeky.  £15 isn&#8217;t a lot to someone who is in work, but trust me &#8211; when you have to count every penny when you&#8217;re signing on &#8211; it&#8217;s a lot of money that could be spent elsewhere (on food for example).  </p>
<p>However &#8211; in agreement with Alex &#8211; there is a need for service like this as Jobcentre plus is no place to get careers advice so something like this is needed, I&#8217;m just not comfortable with the whole charging aspect&#8230;.</p>
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